That should have course, read Xbox 360. Whoops.

and PS3 as well

I'm not sure the Japanese really care much for the Xbox360 at all, as you say it will all come down to the games.

There really isn't anything even approaching must-have on the 360 so far, except maybe the build in VLM.

I love the fact that the VLM is a real selling point for you Paper. Although I love the VLM on the NUON and have spent hours playing around with it, I don't think I'd consider it a selling point.

Some of the release titles don't look too bad. Just nothing spectacular. The thing is until they're actually pressed and in shiny boxes on shelves it's nearly impossible to assess the quality of launch titles. Who would have thought that SC on the DC would have been just so damn good prior to release?

Generalising here, but what I got in Japan was mega Xenophobia, that was the vibe. Its a yank machine, it won't sell, pandering to some hardcore markets isn't going to win them over, only brain washing will.

Unless people can give me examples of western products that have been eaten up by the Japanese market, I still think this way.

They were pretty keen on GTA3 weren't they?

If I were Microsoft I would just abandon the territory altogether and focus their efforts on Europe and USA where people seem to only be interested in Western gaming (generalisation alert!!)

From my understanding, GTA3 enjoyed a polite measure of appreciation in japan, but it hardly set the place on fire. As for the 360, I actually have a soft spot for that machine, and MS appear to have some good ideas for it. It's certainly more appealing to me than the PS3 is at the moment. Had Sony presented a small porcupine as the controller, it'd be better than the abomination it has now.

Interesting news item relating to this here:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/15/xbox_360_win_japan/

they are gunning for December release it seems.

I have a sneaking suspicion that there's an underworld of japan gamers smitten with western game product, but, like the very worst dirty secret, they daern't go public.

I've always thought, surely some of our rising sun friends import as well?

As for the machine succeeding? I really don't know.

On hand i'm thinking that with the popularity of FFXI and such, some folk would maybe jump with such a solid, feature laden beast as LIVE.

But then again, their is a distinct xenophobic vibe to america, they can't play FPSs without gettin motion sickness and weren't they in abit of an economic rut?

Maybe those 3 japanese big gun developers MS announced may go someway to help? But when will their products be ready?

Who knows!

----------------------------
Alan Moore - i worship thee!

I have no idea where all this Xenophobia stuff comes from. In Japan western products (even the English language) are seen as ridiculously cool - youth culture and especially the hip hop side of things, there's a huge emphasis on imported goods/music etc - even imported (mostly American) comics are popular, and Japan hardly has a shortage of comics!

The reason the Xbox didnt do well in Japan is simply down to the god awful controller and the games available on the machine. Here in the west 95% of gaming in Japan does not filter down to us - we dont see what they're getting, believe me the shit they got over there puts what's going on here to absolute shame - it's shocking and depressing and you're going to have to face it, Gaming in the west is absolute shit compared to what they have in Japan - this is fact. There's a reason people arent going to fall for what's on offer on a machine like the Xbox it's because the gaming scene in Japan is like day and night compared to the western scene. Games are seen as games still, people have no problem playing skill based 2D games, no problem with competing against other players face to face in arcades - games are not graphics driven simulations at all, the play and fantasy element is most important and it's part of the culture rather than a strange passtime.

A lot of people mention that PC style games are not played out there - then how do you explain the way Sega dominate the arcades with huge multiplayer RTS games networked across the whole country? I can see exactly why people arent fond of FPS and other western genres there - it's because the shit they take for granted and they are used to is absolutely amazing, FPS games arent. The Xbox launched and relied on Halo, I'm sorry but from my experience with gaming in Japan, I cant understand why the fuck anyone would buy a machine for that.

I agree that there's an awful lot we don't see, but by the same token, there's also an awful lot Japan rarely gets to see from the west either. The Sands of Time, Stranger's Wrath, Psychonauts, Frequency, etc. etc. are just a few games I'd imagine may go down well over the other side of the world, but don't get given the chance. Same with us for the likes of Capcom Vs Namco, Katamari Damacy, Dragon Quest et al.

Don't take this the wrong way, but do you not think that's a bit of a generalised statement, completely dismissing the FPS genre?

It's like me dismissing fighters or shooters.

I do think that yes, the Xbox failed because of a typically Western software line-up, and that's why the Xbox 360 looks in danger. You'd have thought Microsoft would have learnt by now to bring some of the big guns on board for exclusives during the initial launch period.

I does seem like I'm being unfairly dismissive (I am very self aware when I post) but seriously it's because of my time there - they play such a huge variety of genres out there and each one has come A LONG WAY compared to the little snippets we get to see. I'm sorry but the FPS genre does not offer the depth of technique, playing experience nor has it significantly evolved enough all this time it's been about to make Japanese gamers stop what they are doing and take any notice whatsoever.

Western gamers have dismissed countless different genres for no apparent reason, WE are the ones missing out believe me, and the extent we're missing out is depressing - gaming in the west is apallingly narrowminded in what's acceptable to play or even release.

Just to pick up on that fps comment. How did they respond to Outtrigger? Personally I think it is the only fps I've played that has got me really pumped, because of the style and pace of the game. It's arcade heritage just makes it feel fresh and exciting.

Did it bomb in Japan?

Saur - Try telling that to some hardcore Counterstrike/Quake III/Half-Life players.

To be honest, we'll have to agree to disagree. The FPS genre in the last year or so has featured several major hitters in my view. Half-Life 2, Riddick, Halo 2, Far Cry etc. etc. with the likes of Stalker and Fear on the horizon, which are both doing something new. Though preferably, I would like to see the Japanese get in on the act and see what they may come up with on the first-person front. I'm not even sure if the 'shooter' tag can be placed on to many top tier games these days, especially with the likes of Half-Life 2 and Riddick.

I agree with you that we're missing out and that the overall western game playing mindset is narrow. It's that narrowness which has killed off my hopes for sequels to Shenmue, Panzer Dragoon, Rez and everything that I loved about the Sega of old. However, there are genres and forms, as you point out, that the Japanese are also apprehensive about.

The likes of Rome: Total War and Darwinia are two amazing games in the RTS genre that they've probably missed out on for example.

Personally, what I hope for is greater collaboration between the best of Western and Japanese development talent. Not something along the likes of Silicon Knights/Konami porting, but full on integration in terms of creating new games. Valve or Rockstar North linking up with a Konami or Capcom would be fantastic... and I think that each portion of the industry could do well to learn from each other as to where they should improve in their own domestic markets.

No idea about Outtrigger - I was with Sega when it was released, as usual they did nothing with it in the UK and I didnt hear about how well it did domestically. Another stupid crime against humanity - like how the UK only got 1 Sonic The Fighters board, which spent 5 months on freeplay in my workshop! XD

Sega's arcade operation in Japan is amazing - I wish they'd allow photos of inside the arcades, explaining what they are like does them no justice whatsoever! Watching a room full of people take on the same boss in an RPG is mint! And Tekken Net's live monitors display fights from all over the country, not just the current location - VF.net updates immediately when you customise your character and win quotes via your mobile phone. Xbox Live is not that much of a big selling point to people there I dont feel - what they are doing in the arcades where you can play (and gain fame, take home massive trophies, feature in game mags etc) for next to nothing is much better.

I have to say, I agree with most of what Saur is saying here. The quality and breadth of games in Japan really is unrivalled by the west, and I'm in total agreement that Halo itself and other FPSs are in no way good enough games to be system sellers.

I do think there is some matter of taste here though - FPS games obviously are much more popular in the west, and that has been a big factor, but without the breadth of games that the PS2 has to offer or the familiarity of Nintendo's lineup it doesn't seem so strange they are struggling.

I would imagine most Japanese gamers are also non too impressed with MS' strong arm tactics in filling Japanese content either, Tecmo must have had so many notes shoved up their ass it's not funny.

Having said all of that, they now have Final Fantasy producer Yoshi Maruyama as Xbox General Manager over there, and there seems to have been another push to appeal to Japanese developers for the 360. Be interesting to see how it goes.

To be honest though, and this is shaky ground because I don't want to get into an argument, first-person shooter driven games are equally valid as any other genre. Arguably the game of 2004 was one, and several siginificant leaps have been made within that viewpoint. Again, sorry to keep banging on about it, but the likes of Riddick, Far Cry, Half-Life 2 and Echoes have all done something different to each other. That's why I think the 'shooter' tag needs to be dropped.

Once more, Stranger's Wrath is very much a first-person 'shooter' (its core gameplay is built around that perspective), and it's up with Resident Evil 4 for being game of 2005.

It sounds to me as though it's a genre being dismissed easily without much thought, or without much (or modern) experience. To put it into context, I'd be shouted out of the house if I suddenly rained on the fighter genre not having played Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution, Soul Calibur etc. etc. to the full before criticising it. I wouldn't possess the depth of knowledge to come to an overwhelming conclusion as to what the state of that genre was, would I?

Hmm I'm torn here. Whilst I'm not the biggest fps fan, I did used to play a fair bit of Duke Nukem 3D back in the day.

I hated absolutely HATED Quake and all of it's sequels as one player experiences. Online it was a different matter, they were fun for a while.

I think that has been the problem for many a fps game through their evolution, they got hung up on the online play and ignored all of the other things that you need to make a great game. Half Life changed all that overnight and I still feel the genre is trying to find its feet somewhat.

Some of you guys really need to play Half-Life 2.

Oh Christ don't open that can of worms. HL2 polarised opinion on here in a quite unprecedented way.

All I'm saying is that over the past twelve months we've had:

Half-Life 2 = doing something new with physics design, characterisation, and general scale
Chronicles of Riddick = Immersive adventure/Stealth/RPG incorportations
Halo 2 = A highly thought out multiplayer mode that did something new for first-person console games online
Far Cry = though the objectives were linear, it's a pointer to the future with hugely open-ended natural environments

Then you've got on the horizon

FEAR = taking Half-Life 2's physics to a different level and properly incorporating psychological horror (a la Silent Hill) into a first-person-shooter game perhaps for the first time

Stalker = arguably the most ambitious first-person game in development. An open-ended non-linear free roaming adventure set in a desolate wasteland modelled down to the finest detail

These are just some of the more obvious examples too.

I'd agree with what Mads is saying. There just hasn't been the quality of ideas put into FPS games, since the original Half Life was released, to have made any real impact.

All I can see are small refinements. I can appreciate that, but it doesn't interest me at all.

The majority of stuff I buy is Japanese, but there are a large number of unfounded asumptions about Western gaming in this thread that simply aren't true. I'll post more tomorow, when not drunk

______

♫ I promise to commit no acts of violence,
Neither physical or otherwise,
If things come alive

^^^

Prejudice aside if you look at the contribution that the West has made to the games industry post Atari it's practically non existent. If the West was a serious contender it would have it's Sega, Nintendo and Capcom.

In the grand scheme of things I don't consider a developer who releases one great game every 5 years to be significant Nor do I consider a developer that has one franchise worth shouting about that gets updated on a yearly basis worthy of accolade.

On that basis SCI are one of the creme de la creme western developers for giving us the simply fantastic Carmageddon. In fact they're poop.

But surely you guys must understand the sheer hypocracy underlying what you're saying?

That there's criticism for the uptake of narrow viewpoints in the West that are arguably being reflected back in other areas. If you're accusing the West of being narrow minded towards Eastern games, then what exactly are you doing?

An entire half of the world being dismissed with a waft of the hand, and perhaps without knowledge or experience to back that viewpoint up? Isn't this exactly the same kind of attitude that people are annoyed with regards to the treatment of esoteric games from the East being ignored here? That's the kind of attitude that makes the likes of Panzer Dragoon, ICO, Viewtiful Joe, Katamari Damacy etc. increasingly impossible to produce. At the same time, let's reverse that...

If gamers were of the attitude of some of the views being expressed in this thread, and you were all living in an Eastern-accepted paradise here, what would happen to the homegrown talent? We'd be missing out on the likes of Stranger's Wrath, Darwinia, Manhunt, Thief, System Shock, Civilisation, Syndicate, Fable, The Sands of Time, Alien Hominid, Tomb Raider (not the sequels), San Andreas, Beyond Good & Evil, Psychonauts, Still Life, Broken Sword, Half-Life, Wipeout to name a few over the past decade.

Most of the games I like happen to be Japanese of origin, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy many games outside of that country. Because that's what it should be about... the games - not where they come from.

Good point.

I love a great number of Western games, but mostly these are from way back (see threads on MDK, Descent and Galapagos).

The thing is more and more I'm struggling to find Western games that I enjoy. This is probably down to me rather than the quality of said titles, truth be told.

I would dearly love to see a bigger and better Western games culture and I'm not dismissing the titles that you mention in your response Concept. I would love to see a western developer make a game that was a massive hit in Japan as well as here and show the world that the West has what it takes to make a universally popular game.

Amplitude and Frequency stand out as good examples for me.

I apologise if my post made it seem I was being arugmentative. I just feel people should be accepting to all forms of games from various regions. As I've said, a large proportion of my game playing time has been consumed playing Japanese software, and it's an industry I very much respect, even if I do feel it's shrinking and suffering year by year these days.

If more people were accepting and open minded to games regardless of region or platform, then I think there'd be room for experimental and leftfield titles from both the East and West. Unfortunately, we all know we don't live in a utopia or anything of the sort.

The mainstream demographic has become increasingly narrowband and that's due to the marketing several companies use partially. You could argue that the dedicated demographic are snobby towards the mainstream market but I don't think this is entirely the case.

Each extreme of the population of the medium suffers from several problems in terms of being open minded in different areas. The depressing aspect overshadowing this is that many publishers show a lack of faith in what we may or may not be willing to accept/buy.

That's kind of how I feel about the FPS genre which, despite undoubtedly having its moments, hasn't really advanced much as a genre.

Most FPS are simple variants of the same theme; control a camera with a gun bolted to the bottom right hand corner of the screen, whilst shooting lots of enemies.

That said, you could break down pretty much any genre to the sum of its parts in an equally reductive way. The west does seem fixated with its brown-hued FPS though. It's insularity bordering on obsession.