Saw some vids at the Nintendo brainwashing sessions, looked good, textures and res given a bump. No idea if gameplay has been "tweaked".
One thing to consider from Captain Buzzkill, is the "circle pad" isn't a replacement for an analogue stick, the dexterity required is quite different when it comes to thumb manipulation and poising the thumb in the right place.
Since an analogue stick basically orientates itself around the centre of a sphere you know where you are without looking at it. Further away from the centre, the closer the top of the stick gets to the controller etc etc etc.
The resistance on a 2 dimensional plane on the circle pad is passable, not at grim as the PSP nub, but its not the same and the resistance they've added to attempt to emulate the stick isn't 100%. I've spent a while on Pilotwings Resort trying not to do essentially the dpad tap maneuver.
At least the analogue stick wont disintegrate on you like the N64 though hey.
Not sure even now having played Pilotwings and Ridge Racer if the depth is "helping". In Pilotwings I'm pretty sure the "balloons" are 2d assets, making them pretty much useless in the parallax view.
Not sure even now having played Pilotwings and Ridge Racer if the depth is "helping". In Pilotwings I'm pretty sure the "balloons" are 2d assets, making them pretty much useless in the parallax view.
I'd have to double check, but I don't think the balloons (in free flight) are 3 dimensional objects, i.e. spheres, I think they are 2d sprites, so the depth is a strange concoction, I'm happy to educate myself on it. Just an observation. Especially since there is no relative information from the balloon, i.e. a reflection or shadow.
Yeah, the balloons are 2D. But... they are still positioned in 3D, and you normally see them from a way off, and they aren't bunched together so... I don't get how that really affects anything.
If you have a 2 dimensional segment of a 3 dimensional object spinning on a central axis, you know where it is only on the plane facing you (this only works with spheres, maybe cubes?).
So the problem is, you only know where it is based on your natural mental guess based on the sphere's radius/diameter.
Using the parallax view (my hilarious name for the parallax illusion of 2 dimensional 3D(thanks Christopher Nolan (pretentous moi?(!)))).... anyways, so using the parallax view, your 3d object, the avatar, Mii whatever won't look like its touching the sphere, as its a radius away from you as it "pops", i.e. when you touch it, as the collision is with a mathematical invisible sphere its not visually rendering
Essentially with Pilotwings Resort, Nintendo / Monster Games have cheated and wangled a slightly duff 3D effect on the balloons, breaking the point of the depth perception.
Be fine with polygons. But the old tricks don't fly with "3D", Super Mario 64 would be a disaster as a straight port thats all 2d spheres. I don't recall Star Fox 64 being particularly cheaty, but with Nintendo directly tying the literal visuals to the gameplay, we'll get a few of these hiccups.
If its a 2D asset in a 3 dimensional space its always going to be a radius distance away from you, this wouldn't be a problem on a TV, but on the "3D" screen you are going to "see" the gap.
I need to play it again to have a look if this is what they are doing, and why the popping of the balloons looks odd with the "3D" on, especially with the jet pack, since you aren't running at speed and are more likely to notice.
Yeah, its not annoying at all, its just a strange deal. I managed to boot this up last night, had a go at the jetpack with the balloons, its not big thing, its just "interesting" how much work they are going to have to do to get this stuff to be totally cohesive.
The WipEout 3D article a while back covered this... stuff like what to do with reticules in a 3D image, as usually its a 2D asset slapped on the front of the HUD or something, now they gotta think deeeep. That's the only way I can drag this back to Star Fox... as that has a reticule and everything.
so word is there is a 3DS mode, to use the gyro (terrible idea) and you can do 4 player on the slightly crappy multiplayer they had with it.... wooooooo. DS Download Play you'd imagine.
Anyone ever get into the 4 player on StarFox 64? I tried, but it just didn't work really, like alot of the token 4 player modes on the N64.
Well it's designed as a single player game right? So I can't see how the 4 player works if you're playing it properly. If you approached it as a bit of a fun co-op blaster then I guess it could work. It's still fundamentally fun to play even if you're not chasing score.
There was no multiplayer mode in the main game. That 4-player mode was awful, a perfect illustration of why Star Fox's scripted corridors work so well and 3D "freedom" does not. But what do people do? Complain games like this are "on-rails" and look down upon the genre due to not being able to roam a 3D map.
That whole DS game was based on the N64 4-player mode due to this, it played like shit.
What I would love to see is multiple instances of the corridors, one for each player. Then the players could directly affect what's happening on their friend's screen without the problems jamming multiple players into the same space would cause. It could operate like a 'Ghost' system, you're not actually in the other players corridor, rather it just looks like you are.
"Looks like" is all gamers today seem to understand anyway, they won't get how it works, nor would they need to. They could throw all sorts of crazy cooperative stuff at you, a bit like what they did with the 4-player Zelda game on the Gamecube but with Arwings and lasers and awsum!
Well, the 4 player n64 mode was a prelude to the dark days of StarFox... I've not even booted up the 'cube version... but I did play The Legend of StarFox... which was bizarre.
Anyways, atleast there is an admission inside Nintendo that StarFox 64 is brilliant, that bodes well.
As for rail shooter coop, I just think you'd have to have, in the case of StarFox 64 an assist vehicle, like the landmaster on arwing levels and vice-versa, but you'd have to change the enemy routines and have some kind of enhancement for actual cooperation, like they have in Lets Go Jungle or some recent gun games, where two people killing the same thing simultaneously is rewarded somehow.
Gets a bit challenging with the way the camera works in StarFox 64 and so forth, and like you say, its about not getting in each other's face. It does fundamentally change the beast.
Another option might be having one Arwing trail another, pick off the dregs and add in a few more, but have the leading Arwing far enough ahead to ensure its not an ass... naturally again you'd have to alter enemies and set pieces a bit to accomodate... doesn't solve the fundamental problem that, people kinda don't get it.
It needs to be reworked to augment the point of two people knocking around without busting it... I expect developers have considered it, but its such a minority audience... ah well.
Great ideas hopefully someone can knock some sense in to nintendo and sort out the mess they have left by leaving some of there main franchise's in limbo i mean has any one ever felt so crushed than playing that tosh from the namco the bloody on foot levels nearly put me in a deep depression and the ds installment was just as bad
Now lylat wars is pure blue sky depresion destroying bliss It was one of the first games that changed my mindset with games before this it was just mostly play the game see the credits get rid of it. lylat with is fair difficulty easyed me in to score attack the game where the game is only difficult if you make it your aim to score better
This is where nintendo are in an important for the future of gaming area which is sad to see how casulcentic they have I believe nintendo are the only company with any merit that make games that appeal to kids any more look what film and tv licences used to be like it the days before the bullshit sega for example produced great disney and astrix games look at licences now actually dont look at them especially something that appeal to kids 99.9 % shovelware probally why gta has filled the void,nintendo still make games that appeal to kids need to show there is another mindset to games insead of just rushing for the credits show of score attack show us like with super mario world you could make something more challanging by trying to collect 5 dragon coins in one life.
True story - Platinum Games approached Nintendo, asking if they could handle the next Starfox game. Nintendo turned them down.
I really hope they bring this genre back. Gamers today are a bunch of complete fucking idiots. Sin & Punishment 2 on the Wii proves just how much freedom you have to craft really interesting play mechanics within this framework. Nintendo used to have a flagship game within each major genre, but now this has been lost - I really hope they one day craft a proper Starfox game with the same obsessive detial as they do their other flagship titles.
- and I absolutely DO NOT want to ever see free-roaming 3D maps ever again.
nintendo turned down platinum games offer to make a starfox game jesus wept you dont turn down those bad boys its like turning down an invite to a orgy with the page 3 girls you just know know they could elevate the rail shooter genre.
It not just nintendo when are sega going to pull there finger out and bring us panzer or rez sequel
Mabye child of eden can start the fight back of the rail shooters but then again i might be able to build a ladder to the sun out of butter but i doubt it.
There was no multiplayer mode in the main game. That 4-player mode was awful, a perfect illustration of why Star Fox's scripted corridors work so well and 3D "freedom" does not. But what do people do? Complain games like this are "on-rails" and look down upon the genre due to not being able to roam a 3D map.
>_< Doh! never realised that!
If Sega can make this work with Afterburner Climax, including crazy time dialation stuff, then I would imagine that most of the technical hurdles can be overcome.
Oh man.... this is one of my favourite games of all time, but I really don't want to have to shell out for a 3DS! T_T - I absolutely cannot stand the English version of Starfox 64, so I'll have to buy a Japanese machine and be stuck on one region...
LylatWars 64 or whatever was massively crufted wasn't it? borders framerates etc etc?
I can't remember the let downs?
I mean, I think they might be ramping up for the actual release of StarFox 64 over here as they got the name back and everything, and we never got the proper version anyways?
I am Captain PALand these days, so I need to hope. I can't see them going all out with LylatWars 64 3D over here... mind you I wasn't expecting that on the N64 either.
It's the complete re-write of all dialogue I hate the most. Original Starfox 64 is actually pretty damn epic and dramatic, it's not the 2nd rate Saturday morning cartoon shit you get in the English version.
I've played the game so much I can probably recite it in Japanese!
Well, I have the PAL one, had a wangle last night. It is super slick... Fundamentally the same, but definitly not the 64 version, this feels more of a redux than Ocarina of Time, almost like they decided Star Fox 64 wasn't finished, like a director's cut y'know.
I understand it was done by Q-Games, the Argonaut guy, Dylan Cuthbert (thanks wikipedia)... So its so of mental hybrid of Star Fox, Star Fox 64 and some new bits.
Anyways, its great just not the same as the more literal translation that Ocarina of Time 3D appears to be. Obviously the Saur needs to pass judgement. The actual 3d is the more subtle Nintendo approach, although getting your eye ripped out by an Arwing wing tip or having a meteorite appear behind you definitely adds immersion.
I need to play it more to get a proper handle on what is going on, maybe because it is in widescreen(ish)?
Well, that's me buying a Japanese 3DS in July then! XD
I LOVE THIS GAME!!!!!!!!
PALand in ambiguousland, but I am committed.
Saw some vids at the Nintendo brainwashing sessions, looked good, textures and res given a bump. No idea if gameplay has been "tweaked".
One thing to consider from Captain Buzzkill, is the "circle pad" isn't a replacement for an analogue stick, the dexterity required is quite different when it comes to thumb manipulation and poising the thumb in the right place.
Since an analogue stick basically orientates itself around the centre of a sphere you know where you are without looking at it. Further away from the centre, the closer the top of the stick gets to the controller etc etc etc.
The resistance on a 2 dimensional plane on the circle pad is passable, not at grim as the PSP nub, but its not the same and the resistance they've added to attempt to emulate the stick isn't 100%. I've spent a while on Pilotwings Resort trying not to do essentially the dpad tap maneuver.
At least the analogue stick wont disintegrate on you like the N64 though hey.
Not sure even now having played Pilotwings and Ridge Racer if the depth is "helping". In Pilotwings I'm pretty sure the "balloons" are 2d assets, making them pretty much useless in the parallax view.
Actually thinking about it, it will have to be tweaked as the aspect ratio is different.
Not sure even now having played Pilotwings and Ridge Racer if the depth is "helping". In Pilotwings I'm pretty sure the "balloons" are 2d assets, making them pretty much useless in the parallax view.
You make-a no sense!
I'd have to double check, but I don't think the balloons (in free flight) are 3 dimensional objects, i.e. spheres, I think they are 2d sprites, so the depth is a strange concoction, I'm happy to educate myself on it. Just an observation. Especially since there is no relative information from the balloon, i.e. a reflection or shadow.
It simply doesn't get more exciting than this.
Yeah, the balloons are 2D. But... they are still positioned in 3D, and you normally see them from a way off, and they aren't bunched together so... I don't get how that really affects anything.
It totally affects everything.
If you have a 2 dimensional segment of a 3 dimensional object spinning on a central axis, you know where it is only on the plane facing you (this only works with spheres, maybe cubes?).
So the problem is, you only know where it is based on your natural mental guess based on the sphere's radius/diameter.
Using the parallax view (my hilarious name for the parallax illusion of 2 dimensional 3D(thanks Christopher Nolan (pretentous moi?(!)))).... anyways, so using the parallax view, your 3d object, the avatar, Mii whatever won't look like its touching the sphere, as its a radius away from you as it "pops", i.e. when you touch it, as the collision is with a mathematical invisible sphere its not visually rendering
Essentially with Pilotwings Resort, Nintendo / Monster Games have cheated and wangled a slightly duff 3D effect on the balloons, breaking the point of the depth perception.
Be fine with polygons. But the old tricks don't fly with "3D", Super Mario 64 would be a disaster as a straight port thats all 2d spheres. I don't recall Star Fox 64 being particularly cheaty, but with Nintendo directly tying the literal visuals to the gameplay, we'll get a few of these hiccups.
It is only a freaking sphere.
...actually any 2d object with emulated 3 dimensions based on position around it, aka Doom...
I am available for dinner parties.
I dunno man, the only problem is the drawn reflection, which gives the 2D-ness away and has that impossibly-revolving Doom vibe.
I don't see how it really affects the 3D though...?
If its a 2D asset in a 3 dimensional space its always going to be a radius distance away from you, this wouldn't be a problem on a TV, but on the "3D" screen you are going to "see" the gap.
I need to play it again to have a look if this is what they are doing, and why the popping of the balloons looks odd with the "3D" on, especially with the jet pack, since you aren't running at speed and are more likely to notice.
I understand you Jib. Not sure I would find it particularly annoying tbh.
Yeah, its not annoying at all, its just a strange deal. I managed to boot this up last night, had a go at the jetpack with the balloons, its not big thing, its just "interesting" how much work they are going to have to do to get this stuff to be totally cohesive.
The WipEout 3D article a while back covered this... stuff like what to do with reticules in a 3D image, as usually its a 2D asset slapped on the front of the HUD or something, now they gotta think deeeep. That's the only way I can drag this back to Star Fox... as that has a reticule and everything.
Rock
and
Roll
so word is there is a 3DS mode, to use the gyro (terrible idea) and you can do 4 player on the slightly crappy multiplayer they had with it.... wooooooo. DS Download Play you'd imagine.
Anyone ever get into the 4 player on StarFox 64? I tried, but it just didn't work really, like alot of the token 4 player modes on the N64.
Well it's designed as a single player game right? So I can't see how the 4 player works if you're playing it properly. If you approached it as a bit of a fun co-op blaster then I guess it could work. It's still fundamentally fun to play even if you're not chasing score.
It was an Arena mode... flying round in circles shooting each other... you never played it?
Sorry. I'm reasonably certain that on the N64 version you could play the main game 4 player co-op. Or am I getting my wires all crossed up.
A 4 player arena battle sounds total gash, I've never played that mode.
There was no multiplayer mode in the main game. That 4-player mode was awful, a perfect illustration of why Star Fox's scripted corridors work so well and 3D "freedom" does not. But what do people do? Complain games like this are "on-rails" and look down upon the genre due to not being able to roam a 3D map.
That whole DS game was based on the N64 4-player mode due to this, it played like shit.
What I would love to see is multiple instances of the corridors, one for each player. Then the players could directly affect what's happening on their friend's screen without the problems jamming multiple players into the same space would cause. It could operate like a 'Ghost' system, you're not actually in the other players corridor, rather it just looks like you are.
"Looks like" is all gamers today seem to understand anyway, they won't get how it works, nor would they need to. They could throw all sorts of crazy cooperative stuff at you, a bit like what they did with the 4-player Zelda game on the Gamecube but with Arwings and lasers and awsum!
Well, the 4 player n64 mode was a prelude to the dark days of StarFox... I've not even booted up the 'cube version... but I did play The Legend of StarFox... which was bizarre.
Anyways, atleast there is an admission inside Nintendo that StarFox 64 is brilliant, that bodes well.
As for rail shooter coop, I just think you'd have to have, in the case of StarFox 64 an assist vehicle, like the landmaster on arwing levels and vice-versa, but you'd have to change the enemy routines and have some kind of enhancement for actual cooperation, like they have in Lets Go Jungle or some recent gun games, where two people killing the same thing simultaneously is rewarded somehow.
Gets a bit challenging with the way the camera works in StarFox 64 and so forth, and like you say, its about not getting in each other's face. It does fundamentally change the beast.
Another option might be having one Arwing trail another, pick off the dregs and add in a few more, but have the leading Arwing far enough ahead to ensure its not an ass... naturally again you'd have to alter enemies and set pieces a bit to accomodate... doesn't solve the fundamental problem that, people kinda don't get it.
It needs to be reworked to augment the point of two people knocking around without busting it... I expect developers have considered it, but its such a minority audience... ah well.
Great ideas hopefully someone can knock some sense in to nintendo and sort out the mess they have left by leaving some of there main franchise's in limbo i mean has any one ever felt so crushed than playing that tosh from the namco the bloody on foot levels nearly put me in a deep depression and the ds installment was just as bad
Now lylat wars is pure blue sky depresion destroying bliss It was one of the first games that changed my mindset with games before this it was just mostly play the game see the credits get rid of it. lylat with is fair difficulty easyed me in to score attack the game where the game is only difficult if you make it your aim to score better
This is where nintendo are in an important for the future of gaming area which is sad to see how casulcentic they have I believe nintendo are the only company with any merit that make games that appeal to kids any more look what film and tv licences used to be like it the days before the bullshit sega for example produced great disney and astrix games look at licences now actually dont look at them especially something that appeal to kids 99.9 % shovelware probally why gta has filled the void,nintendo still make games that appeal to kids need to show there is another mindset to games insead of just rushing for the credits show of score attack show us like with super mario world you could make something more challanging by trying to collect 5 dragon coins in one life.
True story - Platinum Games approached Nintendo, asking if they could handle the next Starfox game. Nintendo turned them down.
I really hope they bring this genre back. Gamers today are a bunch of complete fucking idiots. Sin & Punishment 2 on the Wii proves just how much freedom you have to craft really interesting play mechanics within this framework. Nintendo used to have a flagship game within each major genre, but now this has been lost - I really hope they one day craft a proper Starfox game with the same obsessive detial as they do their other flagship titles.
- and I absolutely DO NOT want to ever see free-roaming 3D maps ever again.
nintendo turned down platinum games offer to make a starfox game jesus wept you dont turn down those bad boys its like turning down an invite to a orgy with the page 3 girls you just know know they could elevate the rail shooter genre.
It not just nintendo when are sega going to pull there finger out and bring us panzer or rez sequel
Mabye child of eden can start the fight back of the rail shooters but then again i might be able to build a ladder to the sun out of butter but i doubt it.
There was no multiplayer mode in the main game. That 4-player mode was awful, a perfect illustration of why Star Fox's scripted corridors work so well and 3D "freedom" does not. But what do people do? Complain games like this are "on-rails" and look down upon the genre due to not being able to roam a 3D map.
>_< Doh! never realised that!
If Sega can make this work with Afterburner Climax, including crazy time dialation stuff, then I would imagine that most of the technical hurdles can be overcome.
New Japanese trailer:
Oh man.... this is one of my favourite games of all time, but I really don't want to have to shell out for a 3DS! T_T - I absolutely cannot stand the English version of Starfox 64, so I'll have to buy a Japanese machine and be stuck on one region...
I fucking hate these game companies.
LylatWars 64 or whatever was massively crufted wasn't it? borders framerates etc etc?
I can't remember the let downs?
I mean, I think they might be ramping up for the actual release of StarFox 64 over here as they got the name back and everything, and we never got the proper version anyways?
I am Captain PALand these days, so I need to hope. I can't see them going all out with LylatWars 64 3D over here... mind you I wasn't expecting that on the N64 either.
It's the complete re-write of all dialogue I hate the most. Original Starfox 64 is actually pretty damn epic and dramatic, it's not the 2nd rate Saturday morning cartoon shit you get in the English version.
I've played the game so much I can probably recite it in Japanese!
I have the JPN version ordered - its all in Royal Mail's incompetent hands now.
OMG I want to play this so bad!!!! T_T
Well, I have the PAL one, had a wangle last night. It is super slick... Fundamentally the same, but definitly not the 64 version, this feels more of a redux than Ocarina of Time, almost like they decided Star Fox 64 wasn't finished, like a director's cut y'know.
I understand it was done by Q-Games, the Argonaut guy, Dylan Cuthbert (thanks wikipedia)... So its so of mental hybrid of Star Fox, Star Fox 64 and some new bits.
Anyways, its great just not the same as the more literal translation that Ocarina of Time 3D appears to be. Obviously the Saur needs to pass judgement. The actual 3d is the more subtle Nintendo approach, although getting your eye ripped out by an Arwing wing tip or having a meteorite appear behind you definitely adds immersion.
I need to play it more to get a proper handle on what is going on, maybe because it is in widescreen(ish)?