It's cruel - it looks like Sonic, and when you fire up the website it actually sounds like Sonic too.

But deep down you know; They WILL fuck it up. This is Sega.

They're embarassing. People have to beg them for years to release the few gems they've somehow managed to come out with in the past few years (After Burner Climax for example). The rest of the time they're too busy inflicting humiliating shit like this on us;

http://www.sega.co.uk/games/tournament-of-legends/

FFS it looks like the hideous garbage Midway would have forced onto the world back in 1995!

I think its a cynical marketing ploy... the last throw of the dice.

Why call it Sonic 4? What bother pretending its got anything to do with anything to do with Sonic the Hedgehog... its like a marketeers dream, maximum coverage, minimal effort.

The fact that its episodic and they haven't the confidence to release a boxed game just stinks. Although downloadable games are fine.. its just a medium after all.

In terms of game lineage having Sonic on his own in the fourth game doesn't make sense. a "New Sonic the Hedgehog" as a concept is more interesting, a New reboot, people are open to that.. but because Sega Sammy have their head jammed so far up their arses, they can't see it.

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER SONIC 3D!!>>!>>!?!?!??!

I loved Sonic 1 and really enjoyed racing my mate at Sonic 2...but there it ended. Maybe I tried Sonic 3, but can't really remember anything about that one. Not sure I'm that bothered about going back to this, the video looked like a whack version of what was done like 100 years ago...

I'm not a huge sonic fan, but I dabbled a fair bit in the Sonic Jam collection and I think that the 3 megadrive sonic games are for the most part good.

I quite enjoyed Sonic Adventure on the DC too oh and Sonic R (that was underrated). Secret Rings wasn't too bad, but a bit of a grind to get anywhere.

I know people keep bleating on about just doing Sonic 1 or 2 but with better graphics and different levels and to an extent they right. In my opinion though the core gameplay is too dataed to appeal to a wide audience these days.

You'd have to mix it up a little bid (not guns or any of that shit), but something like Sonic + Witch Time, would be mint . Just bring back lightspeed dash as an evade mechanic and job done no?

Saur tells me that Sonic CD is where the game happened.

I am most interested to try that as a consequence.

I can see the concept working, somehow.

I always remember being perfectly happy to trundle through Zone 1 on the Master System over and over again.

Sonic CD I've always held up as THE Sonic game. I loved everything about it, you really had to get to know each and every stage as gaining enough speed to time travel became very tricky later. You had to make a good future in every stage, collect enough rings to access the bonus stage, then ensure you complete the bonus stage as missing a Chaos Emerald was disasterous!

The mechanics were simple, but there was just enough going on to tighten it all up just enough so that there's a real sense of urgency without it being too much to handle. Plus it blatantly had the best music of the series!*

* - but not the US version, they changed the audio ¬_¬

All my favourite Sonic games were the ones Sonic Team had no hand in!

Sonic CD
Segasonic
Sonic The Fighters

I've got Sonic CD on one of those PS2 Sonic Collections. Perhaps I should bust it out. Think it has fighters on there too. Segasonic always looked incredible. Only played it once in the arcade iirc.

Anyone played Knuckles Chaotix? That game looks bonkers with the elastic connection between the player characters. Would like to give that one a go sometime.

I gonna hunt down Sonic Gems for the cube, so I can play on the Wii.

It has US soundtrack though...

Dont.

Emulate it if need be but play it with the original soundtrack, the vibe is too perfect.

Japanese version of Sonic Gems here, including correct Sonic CD soundtrack, and Bare Knuckle.

I win!

I think for one of the Xbox/PS2 versions you'd get the right soundtrack if your system was set to Japanese language.

There is a leaked video from an early build knocking about. Looks a bit like Sonic Rush.

Sounds like it is being developed by Dimps too, so presumably partly designed and project managed by Sonic Team as before. I predict it will be entirely ok, but not spectacular.

This is what I don't get. Sonic Advance is really the actual successor to all that 16 bit 2d jam right... is it because its on a portable it doesn't count?

What about those Sonic Advance games? Do they not count?

(Everyone forgets Super Mario Land too, bloody airplanes and submarines)

Its like Star Wars Extended Universe out there in portable land.

Sonic Advance is actually alright iirc. They introduced a neat mid-air dash thingy, which you had to use to extend Sonic's jump range. Other than that it was pretty much business as usual.

I've been dabbling with the GG/SMS versions of Sonic recently (via Gearoid on the G1). First impressions are it's a very solid game that has enough ideas of its own to be distinct from the Megadrive version. Pretty nippy too considering the hardware.

My first Sonic experience was SMS Sonic, seemed fine and the upgrade to the Mega Drive one didn't seem worth it... I couldn't see the USP at the time, (more colours?)

I did get foaming at the mouth excited for Sonic 2 on the MD, but could never afford an MD... I was most interested in the Sonic and Tails split screen idea, which was then also seen in games like Unicycles and Pop'n TwinBee: Rainbow Bell Adventures.

I had a big thing for co-op games back in the day, anything to stop being beaten (up) by my brothers.

Its never really worked though, the split screen coop platformer... maybe thats down to those I was co-oping

More speed.

Had a go on the PSN demo... I'll give it another go, but I don't understand the design, and the music is deeply deeply terrible.

It seems to be a halfway house between 16bit and night terrors.

I haven't been paying attention, but when did they think having the lock on was a good idea for the 2d games? It would appear to scrub any dexterity or skill required... on a superficial level... what it does seem to add is some interesting zonal lockon navigation ideas, like those found in the 3d games...

But still... I always felt the lock on was a horrible addition to the Sonic idea. But it would with practice add to the flow and rhythm of the whole thing I guess.

But seriously, the music is hideous and the visual design is a bit wonky... looks like an Amiga game with lens flare and some probably 3d assets running around.

Colourful though.

The look of it is really horrible, just like the music - it's like a tribute to an era made by people who have no idea what that era was about. The music is indeed horrific, truly.

I was in HMV the other day and saw this running. Nearby was the original Sonic running on the DSi XL - the game still plays infinitely better and looks a treat. It really hammers home the fact that good art and design counts for a hell of a lot.

Another stupid thing they've put in the new one is the way the screen rotates when you run a loop. What is the point? Using just one effect they've managed to completely destroy the sense of speed and motion.

What's odd for me, is the title screen, which sort of sums up my aesthetic problems with the game... so far..

Boot it up, you get the classic SEGA thing, sort of updated, which is a little yukky, then you get an 'omage to the Sonic title, with intentially crap animation. You'd like to think that back in the day they were aiming for good, fluid, animation, and spent ages getting that cheeky finger waving looking good. So these guys have stuck a four frame, perfectly rendered Sonic popping out... its just very wrong.

Even the friggin Welcome to the Blahblah blah Zone is crapped up on purpose.

Some cohesive design would probably aid you into getting into the game, New Super Mario Bros was borderline, but it all added up, Super Mario Galaxy has some odd Donkey Kong Jungle Beat character design, which just about hangs together, at least the levels match the characters...

Hey ho. I'll give it another punt, the level appears to be huge in the demo. And it does FEEL like there is something interesting happening with the lock on, if a bit crazy.

Any excuse to post this -

They've completely missed the point with the new music - it's meant to be CATCHY!!!

Hey... you know what, from the 360 demo, this seems pretty good to me!

I have no problem with the presentation whatsoever, I think they've nailed the presentation in fact. Following the style of Sonic 1 - 3 they've managed to find the right tone I'd say. It is a tiny download, and cross platform, so all that limitation in not having whizzy 3D Sonic everywhere is totally understandable. It doesn't feel cynical or re-hashy - just about enough of its own thing to carry it off, without being overly reverential. Seems like a successful reboot from the demo, which almost never works with video games, so fair play.

The lock on business is limited enough to be enjoyable it seems, there is a fairly narrow window of proximity between Sonic and an object he can lock, and you only get one chance per jump.

Can see this being fun on time attack, just like the Rush games, and it is properly geared up for this, with level select (from the get go I think?) and online score boards.

Oh yah, and the iPhone version seems to be inferior - only that has the ridiculous spinning screen on loops compared to the 360 version, and the general vibe is that the levels that differ between them are better on the console versions.

Fair point on the music, totally forgettable, that is a poor oversight for an honest Sonic game.

I haven't decided whether to go Wii or 360 yet... but I think I'll give it a proper go. Japanese Wii version is 1/3 cheaper than owt else, hmm.

I have to agree with Paper. This feels like a solid 2D Sonic title. The lockon is fine as the levels have been designed around this mechanic with some nice aerial chaining sections. The lockon is also quite mild, which might allow for some 'orbiting' possibilities if the designers want to take it in that direction.

Graphics seem fine to me. Blue skies lots of colour

As for the music, I wouldn't say it's bad, it's not an earworm like the original, but it's by no means dire. Lacks a bit of bass perhaps.

Yeah this is good and Max (who's 2 and a half) seems down with it, so that's cool.

It's easy to forget just how good some of the Sonic design elements are. The whole rings thing instead of health, the springs, the loops. Lovely stuff.

I'm happy to give it another go.

Which version did you get?

(Seriously though, the lens flared platforms? come on... its grimoid)

PS3 version, only because the 360 wasn't plugged in and I'm low on HDD space for the 360 with a game installed. Normally I put all of my Sega stuff on the 360. It's like my Dreamcast 2...

I seriously think the lens flared platforms are an entirely functional choice. By highlighting the edges of the platforms it gives the player a tiny visual cue to time their jump, which sub-conciously is quite useful when you're belting along. It's pure speculation, but I'd put money on that being the reason.

I too need to spend some time with it, but on the face of it this seems like a genuine Sonic game to me as opposed to some focus group targeted cash-in.

You can play games on a PS3? Where's that option?

It's buried in the system menu somewhere. I can sort of vibe with the PS3 pad for this game. Never liked the Playstation d-pad, but the 360 d-pad is the work of the devil - I hear the newer pads are better in this regard.

Spent 1/2 an hour on this last night and there's some good stuff in here. Road of Cards had me tearing my hair out in places, but scraped through it in the end. The Chaos Emerald bonus section is also a good homage to Sonic 1, but they've made it too easy in my book, the way you can now control the rotation of the maze takes something away. Managed to snag the first 2 emeralds on my first attempt.

I think they've had to balance that with how difficult it is using motion controls on the iPhone/Wii.

Ok I eat some kind of pie with traces of humble in it.

I had another go on the PS3 version, and it might've been actually fun.

As a consequence, I will now consider purchasing on a platform of which you can all dictate.

iPhone? Hoho.

It's between Wii/360/PS3 really.

On the Wii the motion control can be disabled, and SD takes the edge off the things you're not so keen on visually.

I'd probably go with the controller you like most, its only a single button mind. I'm going to go 360.

I would have gone 360, but for the reasons above. You can use the six crapsis on the PS3 to motion control the bonus stages. TURNED OFF by default, which is good

I'm not sure I will have the patience to invest the time required into this one though. I can imagine the levels flow beautifully once you have a path memorised.

That's always been the theory with Sonic games... never happens?

You get a freaking cave level which requires actual skill.

Yeah difficulty starts to ramp up about halfway through Casino. Not attempted the final zone yet. Playing through from Splash Hill Zone I amassed about 18 lives and then wasted them all trying to clear Road of Cards. Game over Act 1 of Labyrinth

Plenty of old fashioned skill based platforming to be found in the more challenging zones. Keeping the controls classic (ignoring the silly optional tilt nonsense) was absolutely the right choice.

Have you guys been keeping an eye on this one?

Looks absolutely brilliant! Proper hoping they finally manage to get a decent game mechanic sorted. LOVING the beats that kick in when he uses the drill power!

Oh yeah man, eyes on totally.

Bought and played Sonic 4 Ep1 Revenge of the medicore level design.

To be fair, instant death level design isn't too bad, esp if there is a checkpoint before hand... but still. I'll get over it, just not good for my 21st Century ego.

All the level design issues I have exist in Sonic 1 and they are here... so the conclusion I have is Sonic 2D isn't for me D.

No one mentioned the crazy quazi over world saving as you go madness.... thats insane.... I don't think our black and white furry chinese friends have been quite so pandered to.

O_o That looks incredible, but maybe I'm just following the pattern in this threads OP.

Re: Sonic Colours

I don't know... that's the first Sonic game I've given a shit about since the Megadrive days. It genuinely looks like a great game. It looks like the kind of Sonic game I've always wanted to play, what the Dreamcast games should've been.

We can only hope that Sega doesn't screw it up somehow.

My Sonic Colours has dispatched, you can bask in my dispatched glory. bask people, bask.

Damn didn't know this was out even... I need impressions please Jib

Need to sort myself out a copy, Japanese version is out on the 18th.

I'm tuned for a crushing... so well, all they have to do is to have worked out that the first stage on Sonic Secret Rings was the formula and recycle that 10 times.

Reviews are good, with the only negative that in places it is unfairly hard. People are so bloody soft these days.

Just for purely hype reference... the music in Colours, based on videos, sounds like its comes from the Billy Hatchery.

GOOD MORNING!

I am setting myself up for maximum crushage.

It is crazy how games are these days.

You even get completely accustomed to it without realising. Like the other night I started playing Panzer Dragoon Zwei again, and it hit me that you have to restart a stage if you die - SHOCKING! These days if you die in a game, you just restart pretty much just before you made the mistake - and suffer absolutely no penalty for it.

Like that new Castlevania - the platform sections, in the rare instance you can actually make a mistake and fall, you just reappear back on the platform!

Can I just hijack this a bit by saying what the heckles mc sheckles is the obsession with "reality"?

I think its the news commenting and aggregation advertising portholes I've been reading... but dude. If something doesn't directly relate to the real world Americans seem to get a nose bleed.

Moderated rant over.

It's true -

It's not a new thing though, I remember how insanely difficult it was to get people here to play an arcade machine which didn't have a gun or steering wheel attached to it. It's the exact same thing now, except that it's dictating the entirety of gaming - instead of it just being the weird tastes of people who aren't that much into games anyway.

Imagine the games we'd have now if it wasn't this way...

Why are people so obsessed with controlling a camera with a gun attached to it - when we could easily have Space Heroness(TM)!

We could easily be playing the epicness of what you see in the Gradius V intro as a full on shoot em up!

1:40 of this vid is where we would be if people weren't so fucking obsessed with bald marines. It's like the entire history of gaming no longer exists, everything was great... then it all just suddenly stopped and turned into a fucking FPS.

I want my Space Heroness(TM) T_T - I want bazillions of shots to dodge through.

Some right on comments in the last few posts. The reality thing is a kick in the teeth really. I suppose there's no problem with a part of the industry going in this direction, but that part is fat too big in my opinion. Where has all the imagination gone?

Oh incidentally Suar you have made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end with talk of Panzer Dragoon Zwei. The game slays me in level 2 when you fly into the caves and there's some of the most beautiful water effects I've ever seen in a game. Absolutely rubbish technically by today's standards, but for my money the most beautiful water in a game ever. Oh and the gameplay is pretty good too <-- Understatement.

Picking up on the difficulty point. I couldn't agree more. I want a challenge I don't mind replaying the same sequence over and over just to scrape through with a tiny amount of health or a single life. This is how it is supposed to be. It's lazy design really. If you make the game un-losable then you can get away with poor play mechanics as the player get's the 'progression hit', wich isn't the real thing, but kind of works as a substitute. Bayo is a perfect counterpoint as that's the first game in many years that I actually sat down and played the same sections and levels over and over (especially the portals). At no point did I get bored or frustrated, because I knew it was me that had to get better and not the game needing to be dumbed down.

We both need to shell out on Sin and Punishment 2. That's as close as you're going to get to what we want at the moment imo.

I keep forgetting about Sin & Punishment 2 - I need to sort that out.

Panzer Dragoon Zwei is a real eye-opener. It's depressing that, even although it was an absolute struggle to get stuff like that going on the Saturn, they not only managed it - but created a damn good game in the process. Zwei is absolutely masterful in it's pacing; it's tense, beautiful, vast or claustrophobic whenever it needs to be.

These days, there are no technical constraints to fight against - yet all we have is an endless supply of carbon-copy FPS games. People now are so quick to dismiss past genres as "on rails", but they're totally missing the whole point.

So Sonic Colors DS game, of which the demo is on the Nintendo Channel on the Wii... thanks Paper for the heads up, is easily better and more entertaining than anything Sonic 4 has to offer... once you get over the auto targeting.. more fluid, interesting additions to the gameplay, better to look at. Good fun.

Exactly Panzer Dragoon Zwei is a phenominal game. I was recommending it to a colleague here only last week. So many magical moments in that game like the first time your dragon takes to the skies. It's incredible the connection the game builds with you and then it wraps that all up in a beautifully simple and yet challenging system. The whole lockon laser vs gun, the different facing directions. The work load on the player is intense at times. Great game.

People equate the constraints of a game like Zwei as being simplistic, but actually the reverse is true. If you look at a "Modern" FPS and deconstruct it, it's essentially memorizing the environment, running a sweeper route and pointing and clicking at anything that looks out of place. I basically suck at this and find the experience rather unfulfilling and pretty dull.