Mine's shipped 
Any impressions from anyone yet? General word seems good - not so overwhelming that we can expect a 'NICO is shit!' backlash, but solid and consistent.
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
La la la la la la la la la I'm not listening lala lalalalala la la la
I've seen 1 screenshot and that's all I know.
A simple traffic light system should be implimented. RED = No, AMBER = Maybe, GREEN = Go
Then I won't have to read ANYTHING
I'm hoping my copy is here tomorrow or Saturday. It just looks amazing, and not merely graphically, but just the whole atmosphere appears enchanting. I wasn't even a big fan of Ico and I can't wait to get my hands on this one.
Oh my God it is good.
That is all.
Is it comparable to Ico?
Need more info and a gaming sesh with someone who has plenty of cash.
Why, is it some weird sort of gambling game?
I think my copy (finally!) arrived today. Want to get home, curl up in bed with it and express my love for it....*ahem*.....I mean play it. Play it, of course.....
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
Is it comparable to Ico? Difficult really as I wasn't much of a fan of Ico so didn't give it all the time it may have deserved. The aesthetics are very similar as you can tell from all the screenshots and vids doing the rounds on the net. The emotional involvement is quite similar and I guess the horse takes the place of the girl (although you don't have to look after the horse). After defeating the first colossi I actually felt sad (yet also an immense sense of satisfaction), the colossi are living breathing 'animals' they are full of life, so when you kill them you are genuinely moved by the experience.
The controls are a little foreign at first but once you have tackled the first colossi you understand the nuances and tackling the second colossi is far simpler in terms of your control over your character.
The scope of the playing field is immense. Whilst the goal is obviously to destroy each colossus you can just travel around which is strangely entertaining.
I've got some films where that happens.
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
Funniest post EVAR!!!!!XD
This is probably one of the finest games I've ever played. I've seen a lot of criticism about the control setup but those faults are highlighted by middlecore chavs. The game is fucking wondrous, you have to be dead inside to find gameplay related problems with it (or at least think the sun shine's out through your bloated colon).
There are a few loading issues though but that's mostly because it's been rushed through QA I'd imagine.
Ball0ns, I simply can't justify any more expenditure at the moment. This does sound special, I'll just have to wait a while and pick it up when it drops in price.
Are there any issues with the Japanese version? Is it all in English or can I expect a Kanji-fest?
There is a lot more dialogue than ICO and it's all subtitled in a real language from the off (as in English in the US version's case). It's not completely impenetrable but the hints you're given are damn helpful and they would be lost to the language barrier if you nabbed the Japanese release. Plus, I am not sure if the Japanese release has kept the prog-scan option...
I wonder if they're going to hold back a lil' somin' somin' for the PAL release. PAL ICO is the one to go for iirc due to the additional option of playing as Yorda. Would be interesting if they tried something similar with 'Colossus
The Japanese and UK releases both had that feature and had identical easter eggs. The reason for that was the fact that the US version of ICO was wholly unfinished and the difference in releases (3 to 6 months) allowed the team to finish the game and add the features they wanted.
The Japanese release of Wanda is but a few days away, this Thursday to be precise, so I doubt they'll have added much by then.
Ah fair play, I've go the PAL version of ICO that comes in the cardboard wallet with some art cards I think. Perhaps that's the difference I'm thinking of then.
I'm sure there is some slight difference between PAL and JPN versions of Ico, with the PAL version the most complete.
It might come down to the translations of what Yorda says, but I can't quite remember now what the PAL version has that the JPN version doesn't.
I thought some of the stuff was translation to native language, adjusting the filmic tones (like sepia) and the 'lightsaber'?
Anyway, buy the PAL version of ICO with the art cards - all of you - and let's get back on-topic
A few impressions:
The game hasn't grabbed me like ICO did, as yet. It's wonderfully mythic, expansive, very lovely to look at and has a storyline like ICO's that's simple yet affecting and drives you on. Whether you want to find out if the girl will be saved, or you don't give a tinker's cuss and want to find out what happens when you destroy all the Colossi (my guess = something fucking nasty), there's something for everybody in its tone. It's alternately spooky, melancholic and Faerie Tale-esque....but it's also a bit drab. The vast landscape doesn't work as well, to my mind, as its loses the tight cohesiveness - and pared-down design - of its forerunner. I went on a big wander (no pun intended) before, found a lovely area where I couldn't do anything, trudged back, then realised exploration was a mistake, as I'll see all these areas anyway when I'm forced to that spot to fight.
I also find the Colossus fights a bit...well...tedious so far, I'm sad to say. They are either preposterously hard, with you finding yourself falling off, climbing on, falling-off.....or they are piss easy. Get to a spot, make sure your balance is set, hit, grab, hit, grab....am I missing something? Ok, so working out the route to the weak spot is intriguing, and takes ICO's puzzle dynamic in another direction, but it's not as cerebral or rewarding, in my opinion.
So far, it's entertaining and interesting, and has a good atmosphere, but I don't feel the emotion like in ICO. There's no immediate, visceral connection to someone you are trying to protect, no vertiginous walls to perilously cross, no beautiful windmill rising out of the hill....it's beautiful but a bit (dare I say) pedestrian so far. Here's hoping I make a connection with it a bit further in.
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
I'm trying to source an Ico PAL, whilst not reading ANYTHING Collosus related, however tempting that may be.
What? You've not played ICO!
Having said that I've not finished it, which is supposed to be pretty easy to do. I think I'm about half way through. Despite what Mr Rogers says I personally found the puzzles to be pitched just right in terms of difficulty.
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"Ico's secret was not that it did what it did do so much as it refused to attempt what it didn't want to do." - Tim Rogers
There are a few loading issues though but that's mostly because it's been rushed through QA I'd imagine.
Oh absolutely. The only significant flaws are technical (and enforced due to the PS2's limitations) on the frame-rate/level of detail front.
However, what the ICO team have pushed out from Colossus is simply amazing. The landscape literally just stretches on for miles... it's unquestionably gob smacking.
Everything from the art style, the isolation and loneliness, the travelling, the variations of tone, the most amazing battles ever divised... the most beautiful landscape ever devised... all of them are simply awe-inspiring. There's a heavily constructed sense of intimacy when you come up on many of the locations hidden away, and I love the sensation that it feels as though I'm the only one to have found them.
Colossus is very different from ICO in many respects (and I don't mean just in terms of gameplay), yet it creates the same sense of wonder, bewilderment and infatuation that its predecessor did.
Game of the year by a huge margin.
Is it THAT good it beats Resident Evil 4 to what I would of thought everyone's game of the year would be?!?
It's not universally everyone's cup of tea in the same way that Resident Evil 4 (mostly) is.
But Shadow of the Colossus is what I was hoping for, and I've found it a more inspiring, uplifting, saddening and moving experience than Resident Evil 4.
They're both great games... Resident Evil 4 is more Terminator 2 - the big, incredibly polished and entertaining blockbuster while in comparison Colossus is more of an Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless mind. It stimulates the mind and the emotions in a different way altogether (not the greatest examples to use for comparison I know)
I suppose it depends on where you're coming from...
I've already seen a few haters over at NTSC condemn the game for being technically flawed (in certain areas) and for 'not having much to do' between each colossi, which to me, seems to be missing the point a little.
Resident Evil 4 will be the main choice for a lot of people, but for myself personally, I've found Colossus to be more engaging, thought provoking and beguiling experience.
Bah, pay no attention to the graphics whores. As long as the graphical flaws don't get in the way of gameplay excessively then why worry.
Some People are intent on getting all hung up on the technology. Totally missing the style and art before their eyes. Such a shame.
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"Ico's secret was not that it did what it did do so much as it refused to attempt what it didn't want to do." - Tim Rogers
I got jumped on over at NTSC for expressing my opinions on the reasons I liked the game bafflingly.
I wouldn't say Shadow of the Colossus is technically flawed to the degree one'd normally slate a title for either. The game pushes the PS2 to its very edge. I've never seen a draw distance like it, or a draw distance which manages such expansive detail. As for the artistry... it's above and beyond words. Mind blowing, hypnotic, seductive, jaw dropping.
Colossus is just a wonderful, wonderful game and everything I'd hoped for. This is something which is rare for me to find these days.
The travelling and drowning in the landscape is a large part of why the game works so well.
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"Ico's secret was not that it did what it did do so much as it refused to attempt what it didn't want to do." - Tim Rogers
This won't do your anticipation any good but...
Colossus reminds me a touch of the exploration featured in Panzer Dragoon Saga.
You know how you were able to explore the environments on your dragon, and how doing so wasn't essential apart from strengthening the atmosphere and your bond with Lagi? Uru, the Shellcoof vortex, the empire station platform Zoah forest were a few particular examples of this.
Well, Colossus evokes a similar(ish) sensation in terms of exploration. You can go straight to the bosses if you want, but if you spend time to uncover the map, then there's a lot to be had for just roaming about the world and taking it in and the atmosphere its built from. Of course the colossi are amazing, but a huge part of the involvement in Shadow is from how willing you are (or aren't) to explore what it offers.
Anyway... doesn't matter if you're later than everyone else. At least you'll be able to enjoy the game on its own merits then and your own terms.
>_<
GGGnnnn I was going to ask you how it stacked up with PDS, but held back because I was afraid you'd say something along those lines.
Concept: I'm going to have a look at the first play thread now, see what people are saying.
I haven't a single problem with the technical side of the game, as I think it works beautifully. The artistry papers-over any cracks, regardless.
That said, the gameplay hasn't impressed me as much as it has you. I find myself in the odd position of liking it but not loving it so far, whereas I bet it's a love it or hate it proposition for most, as ICO was. It just doesn't feel like the pared-down genius of ICO to me - form and function don't meet seamlessly, to my eyes.
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
Treble - the comments have already been moderated, and the hating was in the first few pages by a few people. Thankfully, most of the discussion has got going now.
I'm sorry to hear you're not enjoying it as much as me.... Colossus took a little while to properly click when I played it (after the third colossi I was in love).
I'm about to go back and play some more, just now. I can see what's being aimed for, but I have real doubt it will connect with me, sadly. ICO was all about navigating a totally integrated environment, solving puzzles that varied from the huge to the tiny, but was never obvious or so clearly split between travel, discovery and action. It also had this amazing dynamic of (literally) hand-holding someone you grew to really care for throughout every level. You couldn't separate you emotions from play: you couldn't stray too far from Yorda, or leave her without your help and guidance for any length of time. All your physical movements emphasised your desperation - Ico doesn't look like a hero, or act like one. He's a desperate child caught in a vicious, pagan game he can't understand or have a prayer of competing in or winning.
In SotC, though, there's nothing like this. You feel a pang when you drop a colossus, and their and your physical interaction often looks amazing, but I stand by my assertion that the boss battle aspect is underwhelming, and doesn't give you the emotional charge of ICO. I find it (combat) monotone and separate from the rest of the game world. Navigating on (the unfortunately named) Agro, using the sword for guidance, climbing...all these things feel very integrated, very natural (once the controls are learned). But the minute you encounter a colossus, I find it becoming a fairly basic game with no, I suppose, poetry. There's no blend of physical form and accompishment that defined ICO. Your weapons and grip meter are tools from other games; your battles against larger opponents is a dynamic from other games; your defeat of a foe and 'let's-move-on-to-the-next-one' sigh of relief a tenant of other games.
In terms of being one cohesive whole, I think the SotC's a step behind ICO. The visual lyricism has been ramped-up no end and the atmosphere is peerless, but I think we've seen a step back in terms of completely hermetic, singular and flawless design, with this being ICO's slightly weaker, more arcadey cousin in gameplay terms.
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
Is it possible that some of what your feeling is down to wanting SotC to be another ICO. Can you detach yourself enough from ICO to approach this game as a newcomer?
The only thing I can think of as an illustration of what I'm driving at is the films Alien and Aliens. Both are fantastic in their own right. However, when watching Aliens I crave the claustraphobia of Alien and when I watch Alien I hanker for the pace and action of the sequel. To fully enjoy them I have to mentally erase the other film from my mind.
I'm not sure I'm making much sense.
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"Ico's secret was not that it did what it did do so much as it refused to attempt what it didn't want to do." - Tim Rogers
I can see why you'd think that but no, not really. I can witter on and on but, at the end of the day, the combat just doesn't grab me that much. Truly a game of two halves, for me - the combat isn't integrated into the artistic sensibility and vice versa. It's a decent game, but not a great one in my opinion.
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
Well, the shadow has definitely fallen. A good indicator of whether I will continue with a game or not is if I hanker after it when I can't play it. Truth be told, it's barely crossed my mind during the last two weeks since I played it, apart from in a "Oh, I suppose I better tackle that game again...."
Won't be one I'll be playing again, sadly. The game pushed all the wrong buttons for me - I can see what people see in it, but I can't connect with it personally.
Ah well
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
Played this 'round Papers for a bit... I'm going to grace you with my opinion shortly, I'd thought I'd find the thread and post something so I can find it easier once I get my muse (caffeen).
All I can do is draw an analogy to Zelda I'm afraid. To me, basically, it feels like fleshed out Zelda boss battles, without the need for a boss.
Now, I'm totally "down" with the controls, I quite like their apparent simile with the physicality of bounding about, clinging onto things and so on. As an amatuer climber I can safely say the fella will have torn every sinue in his body climbing like that, I can attest to that as my technique is equally poor.
That aside, with Zelda or any narrative either gameplay narrative or the traditional kind, a beginning, middle and end. This would manifest itself with the "getting the new weapon" challenges, and then making yourway through a dungeon, finding the limits and learning the new skills and so forth, culminating with the "boss battle" in which all those skills, now integrated into the base skillset are utilis(z)ed.
SotC on the otherhand seems to have been given the direction that all that stuff is superfluous. Naturally, SotC, doesn't want to be a Zelda clone and drawing comparisons merely because of the simlar thematic devices, i.e. guy, horse, field, sword, girl, arrows etc, is gonna happen, atleast for those who've played the recent 3d Zeldas.
As an actual gaming mechanic, I'd agree with Treble, it's quite 'lite®'. Losing inventory management, infinite arrows, self replenishing health, giant "hit here now zones", obviously that's using the current "agreed" rule book. But, by sheding those usual staples, be it good or not, you've really gotta make improvements in the battles with bosses.
That's been addressed, to a certain extent, in the clambering over a dynamic landscape, once you've experienced that idea once though, that's it. That'd be one boss idea in the Zelda universe, the guys at Nintendo would've moved on, but these fellas seem to be far to pleased with themselves. Again, they've made a nice contigious universe, but in the end the Collosus still follow those rules we've already experienced, the "find the flaw, exploit it" game.
Like I say, it seems to be a Boss battle simulator. There is no world here, no anima, no life, in a pretentious way that might float people's boats, in a playing a computer game way, I have nothing to connect with here, it's a dead world, unbelievably dead... intreguingly dead, it might be my "seeing behind the presentation beard stroking" mind, but it seems to be an exercise in seemless loading, not as blatant as some games have been, but still some annoyingly transparent archetectural anomolies.
I also think there are alot of ways to improve the "game" too, all in all it seems half cooked. If anything its a nice tech demo.
Agreed. I see where Ueda's coming from, but I don't think the game delivers. No, as you say, 'Anima' exists - it's a dead universe where you are led from one boss battle to the next by the hand - not a feeling you could in any way ascribe to ICO. It's almost as if they thought, "We got rid of the boss battle structure in ICO and redefined the platform game. Now, let's fill it full of nothing but bosses and re-invent the Adventure game".
Somewhere in that decision making process they forgot that that sort of mechanic can swiftly become boring, especially when set in a dead world. At least the Zelda world in OOT was packed, vibrant and filled with numerous and enjoyable side quests and characters - as Jibs says, Nintendo realised that (no matter your artistic pretentions) there has to be a great game in there, too, and it has to be expansive and fun.
SotC was a big letdown for me because, if you lose the graphical trappings and periphery, it does exactly what other (admittedly truly great) games have been doing for many years, but without their variety, or sense of excitement and fun. It's still very beautifully directed, though.
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
I agree entirely with that.
I can't add much, other than to say technically there was no self-control exterted whatsoever.
Sacrificing frame rate, that really does impact gameplay, for the sake of a few novel lighting effects is unreservedly arrogant.
I'd rather Shadow not have been interactive at all, it would have made a better rolling tech demo.
The art direction and design is superb, at least.
(I posted this over at Rllmuk and Ntsc-Uk. These are my thoughts after finishing it. They haven't changed so didn't really see the need for a retype.)
So, finished this the other night.
Hmmm...
Lets get the not so good out of the way.
Sorry to say this would have been better on either of the other two consoles. The PS2 barely handles what's going on, and the frame rate is really all over the place. The pop in, and draw in of textures actually made me jump on occasion as well as whole mountain ranges just appeared out of nothing. On top of that, the DS2 is just a cumbersome weapon against you. The huge dead zones in the middle make crawling about and even riding a sometimes painful experience.
The camera... Oh, man the camera. Stop trying to put the camera where you think is best! I want the camera here, not where the game thinks it would be best. It's not for the best if all I have to see is the arse of a collosus!
But...
It's still pretty good. It's not the second coming like some people are saying. it's certainly not as good as Ico. The collosi are an impressive lot though, and yes the game does generate a fair amount of emotion, primarily from its wonderful score, both rousing and tragic in all the right moments.
The fights were on the whole pretty good. A couple of them were a bit on the laboured side. I didn't like the last titan with his really annoying tactics before you reach him.
On the whole, I'm glad I played it. I just think it's a bit sparse and, on the whole, a little empty. It doesn't have the heart or soul that Ico seemed to capture so well, and in keeping that game's general aesthetic, it leaves itself slightly hollow.
Maybe that's just me though, but I never connected with either the Wanderer or the girl. The only bit that actually slightly moved me was right before the fight with the last Collosi (you all know the bit I mean).
So, an Edge 8. Seems generous after playing it through. I'd knock one off it.
Wonderful. I'm looking forward to the lynching I shall receive when I submit my review
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
Here's the translation of that tech article from Game Watch:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=660151&postcount=18
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"Your denial is beneath you and, thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs, I see through you." Bill Hicks (1961-1994)
http://cacophanus.net/
Impressions after finishing it this christmas (Posted elsewhere)
OK, I finished this the other day. Impressions, then:
Comparisons with Ico are always going to be pointless - the only thing these games share is the use of the same art style in some places and the movement of the Wanderer reminds you of the movement of Ico, in places. Apart from that, these two games are a complete world apart, and not in a good way.
Ico directed the player around a tightly constructed world with puzzles to solve along the way. Shadow of the Colossus directs the player around a massive, massive world simply by making it empty, and giving the player the direction to go in. This doesn't make it fun. Granted, it's nice to look at the scenery, but travelling around holds no puzzles, no enjoyment, nothing, it only serves to set the scene that you're in a forbidden land, something the intro did anyway.
So, the only thing in the game is the fights with the Colossi, the rest is a vacuous hole of gameplay. The Colossi are impressive themselves, but after a fair few it just becomes a dreadful chore to play through them. Each one requires you to find/expose it's weak spot, then try to stab it there as often as possible. Climbing around Colossi can be a pain in the arse as they try to throw you off, sometimes I'd be on the weakspot for a good 3/4 minutes before I got the opportunity to actually get a hit in.
Technically it's absolutely fantastic, but they bitten off more than they could chew with the PS2. Motion blur looks great, as do the bloom effects, but it comes at a massive sacrifice of the framerate. 10-15fps IS NOT GOOD FOR MIGRAINES. The streaming landscape is also a pain, occasionally mountains pop out of no-where, or worse, the game pauses for a second or two whilst it loads the map up. It only happened twice for me, but it's still there.
The musical score is it's highlight, and for pure atmosphere, it's a fantastic game. I reckon I'll come back to it just to wander around a little, just because it's so beautiful.
Another problem is the plot. I guessed exactly what would happen at the start of the game: "The price you pay may be high indeed". Heh, not too big a clue? Unlike others, I never really felt any kind of guilt at killing the Colossi, they went for me first! And come on, you can't let things like that into society tongue.gif They all deserved it biggrin.gif Quite a decent ending though, I managed to cheat it:
SPOILERS!!
As you're controlling the black Wanderer, and you're getting sucked into the pool, if you keep tapping Jump you can get away from the pool. You can get up to the pedestal but you can't get outside the building, they've put invisible walls in :S I was hopping around for ages!
Decent, but not good enough.
Not much to disagree with there, it just feels incomplete doesn't it.
Had another go before Christmas, Collossus no. 8, and I can't see any point in continuing.
The sword-of-plot-negation and sub-Epona (Subpona) have seen to that.
PAL be out soonish 17th or so aparently.
Might give it another bash then... or just steal Papercut's American version.
stolen Paper's yank version....
Got to Collossi 8 in 1hr 44mins....
ADmittedly that's with foreknowledge of how to do some of them... but its not like its rocket science.
Not really changed my opinion much of it though, my housemates were as bemused as I was with the concept and execution... but it is what it is.
I'm going to complete it inspite of itself, the impetus isn't there in a narrative aspect, more the desire to see what they've done next... Beard Collossi is my fave so far, in so much as he has a comedy beard.
Finally got around to playing this. I'm sort of lost for words really. Some genuinely good ideas in the game, grip gague is great, horse riding is great, but it's like the creativity stopped there. The rest just feels like they were going through the motions. Mostly the battles boil down to working out which part of the environment you have to use to your advantage to get to the weak spot and then it's goodnight big boy with a couple of sword stabs. I was expecting each colossus to be more like a minature Ico with puzzles and platforming mixed together.
I loved it personally, if the mood of the game doesn't get to you then I guess I could see why you wouldn't like it.
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When's 'Wii Carlton' coming out?
No no don't get me wrong the mood works for me wonderfully. I totally love the mood, the look, the environment, just galloping aroud on the horse, doing various horse related trickery and hunting lizards etc. I totally FEEL the isolation as I eat up the savanah.
What I'm not feeling is the HORRIFIC hint system that destroys any dificulty the game had. I don't want the game to tell me how to solve the puzzles.
Hint system? How far are you through?
I'm 13 defeated. My beef is that if you spend more than about 10 minutes goofing around with a Colossus the 'voice of God' thunders in with some 'advice' e.g. (not an exact quote) "Try to deceive the colossus" or "The colossus is afraid of fire". It's so irritatinig. Half the time I've worked out what I'm supposed to do, but just finessing the execution when the HINT comes in and the other half I'm enjoying myself experimenting trying to work it out, in which case the fucking thing is basically giving me the solution I'm working towards.
Maybe there's an option to turn it off, but I've not seen one. What's even more irritating is that the 13 puzzles thus far have been well designed in that they're solvable just through observation of the environment and the behaviour of the colossus. There's really no need for the game to hold my hand. Ico doesn't fall into this trap and the puzzles in Ico are far more complex than those on offer here.
I just feel like there could have been so much more to this game given the superb horse and grip meter mechanics.
Question: I've spent a fair bit of time buggering about 'off-mission'. Other than sight seeing and collecting white lizard tails are there any secrets hidden out there worth worrying about. Don't tell me what they are obviously!