Actually the more I think about it the shitter it sounds. The whole point of Sega Rally was arcade gameplay and the inherent learn repeat mechanics. This sounds like it's going to be more of a lottery.

Oh and the name. Can't stop thinking about this

_______

"Anyone who's played Namco's Cyber Sled and wished, however remotely, for a home version will be the first to figure it out:... - Tim Rogers

Yeah. Sega Rally. Seems to be more of a brand thing now. Wierdly, playing on our recolections.

There's a pre-buzz buzz around today about this...

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=78226

Fortunately all signs point to PC which means FF goodness... although the Driving Force Pro is meant to fully work on PS3 games... that might involve, y'know, buying a PS3.... However for driving games, assuming FF functionality, you HAVE to have a PS3 as the Xbox wheel is reported a rumblatron (I've only done superficial research)

Obviously I am exceptional sceptical about any of it...

As a stand alone concept I like it... with Sega Rally prefix... I'm frightened / childhood dreams shattered.

I have faith.

This to me sounds like the final corner of Desert extrapolated into an entire game. THAT Corner for me is the essence of Sega Rally. One bend infinite variation, blind exit, little in terms of reference point to turn in against. If they can make a game like that then I'm sold.

He makes some interesting points re. change of surface. One thing that makes me smile when playing Live For Speed (sorry to keep harping on about it) is the change of surface in South City. LFS like this game is all about tyres and traction. The section in question is a transition from cobbles to tarmac and you find yourself scrabbling for traction on the cobbles only to be propelled up the hill when the tarmac kicks in. The sudden change in traction can really upset the vehicle and it feels great.

Interesting to see that there's a PSP version. I bet that won't be featuring deformable surfaces. Might be an interesting alternative to the under tele jobs as a result.

My brain wafted to that final corner of desert... in fact the dude in that article actually explains that entire corner perfectly... but in the context of his game.

However... the cutting up of the tracks and the reaction there in, sounds like good use of new tech contrasting urban crime simulations...

As for the PSP and Mobile platforms... what the hell that is all about I don't know, it kinda contradicts the point he is making... you could mathmatically do all the deforms on a 3do if you wanted and change the performance of vehicles therein, it aint rocket science... as with most of the ps3/360 stuff its about asset generation and making it look right.

It's going to depend largely on whether the engine fakes it or not. By that I mean if the game is calculating tyre deformation, surface deformaiton and tyre surface traction forces every frame then what you have is a very complex simulation. The soil mechanics alone will be computationally heavy.

However if the passage of a vehicle simply produces a rut and then the handling model is faked to alter as you either line up or cut across the deformation then I think the results will lack quite a bit of depth.

I'm assuming it's the former. The implication of all of this is that they're potentially taking the driving genre in a new direction. Up to this point all the effort has been in modelling the vehicle. The focus here is quite different; doesn't Motorstorm do something similar thoguh?

Basically it could be the Half Life of arcade driving games or it could be the Red Faction...

I went to see Sega Rally on demo last week and I can tell you that it pretty much runs the way you're suggesting. They showed a polygon grid of the track and how it changes when pressure is applied - the changes are minute but very effective.

Can't say I'm too bothered about the tech, though. It's a means to an end. What matters is the way it plays and this one plays tremendously. It really does feel like a prettier Sega Rally 95 but somehow different. Using a force feedback wheel is essential, by the way, the difference between different surfaces and deformations is so much more apparant when you can actually feel the resistance of it.

More and more I'm feeling I need to get myself a wheel.

I think journo reaction could be interesting on this one especially in the wake of Colin McCrae DiRT.

Thanks for the impressions Kaladron, you've convinced me that I need to get this game

FF wheels.

Basically the only way to play racing games.

Although the valid argument that a game that uses the controller well (Sega Rally) or a really good driving game (Sega Rally) can justable transcend control mechanisms through its awesomitude.

But generally, you can't go back to Sticks / Control Pads once you've FF wheeled it.

I need to research the Xbox 360 thing, I don't think it does FF at all, just the mungly guffers rumble... which is like having a 42 inch black and white plasma.

I'd love to have a proper wheel myself but knowing me I'd have to have the whole driver's seat frame thingy to go with it...and that's a very quick trip to poverty town, right there.

I'm really hoping that this gets an arcade release to be honest. The game has just been approved for a Japanese PS3 release, something which was an uncertainty for many months, so I have faith that it could happen.

I can't see it myself. Sega would either have to port it to Lindberg or license the PS3 derived arcade architecture (unprecedented). Although they've been a little quiet on the arcade front for a while, so I expect we'll be seeing some new titles soon. Could be, you never know

Well, Sega Europe released Razorworks' Ford Street Racing in the arcades and that was, for want of a punless phrase, a complete car crash. They need to redeem themselves and Sega Rally is just the ticket. Granted, technology would be an issue, but I think it's worth designing a whole new PC-based arcade board for it.

I'm happy I have an FF wheel solution now... both Xbox 360 and PS3 have a solution, the Driving Force Pro being the bestest... sometimes though developer eschew decent wheel support, for I don't know, something completely superfluous like Online!? (hello Sumo)

I don't know what the development heirarchy is for games, but "best input method" wins over "hamfisted online conceptualisation" any day... the fact that Sega Japan oh so unfortunately lost the online in favour of the wheel support in OutRun2SP PS2 tells you something.

Where am I going with this? Oh... I'm sure it will be wheeled up, just moaning about OutRun2SP again that's all...

So yeah, Kaladron, you reckon its good, or were they pumping heroin through the air conditioning system whilst you were playing it?

My boring Sega Rally argument is thus... 4 tracks, decent driving mechanic, that's all you need. OutRun2 was fantastically restrained about this, if anything it had a few too many tracks to choose from, however, because of the branching structure, it was like having oodles of one track with many alternative routes..

Sega Rally 2005 kinda suffered from a trackgasm, it was almost if they are randomly generating those in that game!

There are a lot more than 4 tracks - 24 if I remember correctly - but if they're all as well designed as the four I played then we're in for a treat.

As for the wheel. I don't think I could stomach playing this on a pad after having sampled the real deal. I'll be getting an FF wheel for the 360 but am a bit worried about securing it to something. My coffee table is too low down to get my feet under and the dining table is so big I won't be able to see the telly.

Anyone know of a good, affordable, custom solution?

Ironing board, as mentioned by someone on ntsc-uk. I've tried that before and it works as the legs provide a nice lateral base for resisting turning forces. Not so good if you have a habbit of pushing or pulling on the wheel though. It's also height adjustable (well mine is anyway).

The altrenative is a racing chair or dun dun duuuun make you're own custom jobbie, something which I really think wouldn't be that difficult to do looking at the commercially available ones. One thing that bugs me about most of those seats is the bracket for the steering wheel attaches to the base between your feet. I can see this becoming an issue later on when 3 pedal setups become more mainstream.

Ironing Board!! Genius!

Cheers, mate. I'll give that a try as soon as I have a wheel.

I can't take any credit for it, I think it might have been Fuddle's idea circa InitialD Special Stage PS2. Worked for me though when I had one of those Logitech Driving Force Pro wheels. I returned that wheel as the shifting was broken for InitialD, you had to use the wheel mounted dpad, which sucked big time.

I think I need the GT4 wheel as it seems like the best option the Logitech G25 is obviously the ultimate choice, but it's way too rich for my pocket.

Being flat broke sucks the fat one

Can anyone tell me which is the best FF wheel for the 360?

Show me a list of FF wheels?

I think there is ONLY the offical 360 one?

Oh. I guess USB PC wheels don't work then?

You'd assume not, because a device is USB doesn't mean it it ubiquitously supported... maybe in a world without global corporations trying to make money on hardware exclusives...

If logitech were to make there wheels work on the 360 and supply the drivers and developers to then include those drivers in their games... then... then... we would be laughing, however, my pile of 2 and half racing wheels tells me that generic support for any wheel aint happening.

Heck, even PC games are a bit shy about support wheels properly, its always a bizarre after thought.

So, to summarise, to the best of my knowledge officer, the Xbox 360 FF Wheel, is the only wheel on the 360 to support Force Feedback, and that's only in games the in turn support it... so that's a kludged up version of PGR3, where having a wheel on a game designed from teh ground up as a pad game, and its relation to reality as close as that from earth to mars, and Forza 2, which is alright, if slightly feeble.

However if you find out any more info, let me know, I am a bit of a Wheelophile. And cheers for the Wii Degree scores!

Hmm, that's what I suspected. Bit of a shame, as I really like the Logitech wheels.

Have you guys seen what's coming soon to Tokyo Joypolis?

It's like the full-scale Sega Rally - but with Takumi and Eurobeat!

________________________________

I have an erection.

Oh shit me that's amazing. Really amazing. I just hope there's an FC White Comet of Akagi cab just out of shot to make it TO DIE FOR. How much are flights to Tokyo again?

That must be replacing the Touring Car jobbie.

I reckon Mads needs to sort out a trip to Japan once that thing is in

that thing looks Killer (seven)

[img]http://cache.kotaku.com/gaming/killer-7-screen-(16)_f.jpg[/img]

So yeah, I looked at some of them videos of "Sega Rally" on the 360... purty, but the mechanics look quite good from the vids....

Also now the devs have said this:

http://www.gamesradar.com/us/xbox360/game/features/article.jsp?articleId=20070220175343881065&releaseId=20060428181922508062&sectionId=1003&pageId=2007022018142952063

Everyone should buy it on principle.

Quote of the month! Can't see Sony being terribly happy about that.

Nope. Sega weren't too happy about it either from what I hear.

Well I have to say until today excitement level for this one was set at medium to high. However after reading a hands on in 360 magazine today I´m now set to hyper.

The article in question was unexpectedly really rather good. It laid it down flat... this is going to be an arcade racer (no apologies) and has its roots firmly in focus. Interviews with the developer also showed that they understood what the game should be, which is so refreshing to read. Sega have taken a big gamble with this one moving the development to the UK, but I have a feeling that this will retain a real Sega-ness about it. Could this be as the name suggests the rebirth of the original Sega Rally? Can´t wait to find out.

One choice quote from the piece was this

Possibly the most intelligent thing I´ve read in a mainstream mag in years XD

I know one of the main dudes working on this, and some of the team involved on Sega Rally are ex Codemasters guys. From what he told me, they played the original and other great Rally games they created and others such as Rally Sport Challenge 2, which honestly, is perhaps one of the best Rally games I've ever played.

They could have slapped SEGA on the box, and I would have been fooled. Fantastic game. The control felt so slick and powersliding around corners never felt so satistying, especially as you as you throw up dirt, dust and debri as you skirt along the edge of a cliff. Music was shite though! xD Thank God for custom soundtracks...

From the videos, it does look like they have nailed the handling. Game is locked to 30fps, and someone i know who is playing it at the moment said you get over quickly enough. Big enough of an issue for some, but minors really.

No news on any classic tracks yet though. Out on the 28th of this month.

Framerate's not an issue - better to have a constant 30 than a juddery 50-60.

What is an issue, however, is the out-of-car view. I'd say it's close to unplayable from that perspective as the back end of the car is constantly swinging from side to side. In-car view is rock solid though. Stick to that.

Good. I´m an in-car man when it comes to Sega Rally and Daytona for that matter.

We can argue about RalliSport 2, its basically an embarassment of a game, that I really don't understand why people like... a bit like TopSpin, it appeared ina void when people forgot what games were about.

I am still officially psyched about SEGA Rally [sic]

ok, maybe less grumpy.

I didn't get on with RalliSport 2, there was too much going on for my tastes... but I am very particular about what I like about Sega Rally, so having cars driving around a dirt track doesn't make a Sega Rally game... its more about the whole event.

Which is a completely unfair series of criterion to evaluate something by. Took me a few years to like Sega Rally 2..>!

EASY LEFT

I never got on with Sega Rally 2. Too much of a long haul for my liking.

Totally OT, but shocking news about McRae. His family must be in tatters

Must... resist...

Ooh, the demo is meant to be up on Live now - I'm waiting for Jibber to explode with excitement.

I watched some of the technical demo videos and now I'm completely sold - can't wait to play.

Pondering Driving Force Pro vs Xbox wheel at the momemt. Hmm.

BANG

MUST... GO... HOME...

Must resist what?

Demo out today eh. That's my evening sorted then

yeeeeaaaah, well.

Dunno where to start...

First off, well, first I can think of... 6 cars? what? that's not right, its more RalliSport2 than Sega Rally at this stage.

The tracks are too long, but thats almost forgivable...

The terrain thing isn't really doing anything for me right now, it doesn't seem to quite match the ethic, technically you'd be penalised for being in first place in this generic 6 car race..

The demo is unbelievable easy, I'm sure thats intentional, and I have no idea what the real game format is... but the tracks at the moment smell of tedious overmadeness.

At the moment I am just getting this kinda euro emulative generic techo trash vibe from it.

I will buy it, you'll be pleased to know, because I want to see what they've done, but having a few samples from the original and remixed tunes doesn't a Sega game make.

If there is a proper SEGA Rally mode, and its face burningly tough, I'll be happy... the handling at the moment feels kinda Sega Rallyy... but versus the 6 cars thing and the so far slightly too long and not technically challenging tracks... it doesn't gel as it should... basically a bit like Sega Rally 2005.

...

also...

also...

not only do we get 6 cars on a track in a race format, we have GTesque rubberband AI!

whaddup wiv dat?

Hmm I´ve played the canyon track once with the Evo and came 5/6 so I´m obviously finding it more difficult than you. I was feeling the ruts by the 3rd lap, there´s a real difference in traction you can´t hold the line as easily that´s for sure.

Not sure if that is really what the developers were going for with this one. I need to play it some more, but so far I´m liking it. I´m struggling with the handling (trying to do everything 1995, which isn´t working).

Hmmm, i've come away playing it with totally different opinions to you guys. :|

Been playing the two tracks for the past hour and a half, i'm really enjoying it. Looks really nice and if I wasn't told it was 30 fps, I would have happily believed otherwise.

They've got the handling bang on imo, they've got the announcer and they even got in the "GAME OVER YEAAAH!" guy screaming at the end of the demo. WIN!

Both of the tracks available are fun. Plenty of nice corners as well as plenty of wide cheeky places where you can overtake the opposition around them too, oh and on the Tropical track a very similarish layout of jumps to the first track in SR1. The hair pin on the Canyon level reminds me so much of a track on RSC2, so satisying getting around it full speed and then bombing it down the hill to a medium right. Really nice course, lots of variation.

Out of the two, the Canyon is my favourite to race so far but the Tropical track has more use of the track deformation feature. Soon as you start you can feel the difference of driving in tracks already dug in the sand, as opposed to trying to drive on fresh sand. It's definatly better to drive in the tracks then going over and against them, the rumble seems to react to every groove and track you drive over as well as making the car handle off a bit.

By the 3rd lap both tracks are pretty churned up so it's best to go for the line which has been carved out for you. I've not really noticed that much of an acceleration boost in taking these lines, although I suppose extended play and Time Trials will highlight that. I still think that on certain turns it probably better to slide out of the path carved for you, especially in overtaking other cars.

Started off with Manual Gears first, although I'm not really comfortable with the default layout. Stuck with Automatic and managed to control the car pretty well and nicely around the track, just sliding in or slowing down before a harsh corner or hairpin. I love how theres some sections of both courses which you don't have to use the brake and you cans smoothly slide and power up to the next set of corners.

Really looking forward to the full release, think I will be getting this instead of PGR4 for my racing kicks. Don't really get on with "Sim" games, atleast with this bumping and blocking will be all part of the fun!

I'm sorry man, but SIX CARS!?!?!

I woke up angry about that....

Sega Rally is like a wierd arcadified rally, so you have yer three or four stages, with 15 cars spread out throughout and you tackle them one by one and use them as markers as to your progress...

This game is so much more a home console sponge fest... its like they were either embarassed about the arcade heritage or pandering to the console preconceptions, and fell between two stools.

I reckon the money will be at Time Trials, the winging it around a track with a bunch of rubberband AI is about as interesting as booting up Gran Turismo.

I really hope there is a proper Sega Rally mode, I saw the Lancia Delta Integrale on one of the promo slides post demo... so they better atleast have groovificated the original tracks and Sega Rally moded them.

Mads, man, I can't beleive you finished 5th, I got 1st everytime by sheer bludgening, and the grooves made no realy different to how I played... the pregrooved sand Tropical course was the most interesting in terms of it being marginally beneficial to stay in the racing line.

It was most fun with no AI in your face though.

Time Trial for me come the 28th.

I got 2nd in the first race, 1st after that. As Jibs says, that is just by forcing my through, but bouncing off cars and the track does hurt your time.

I think they have the tone and the style spot on, I'm with Singho there.

6 cars.... this is just a demo. Who knows what the other racing modes are like. But the endless procession of ethereal cars would be difficult to pull off today, given ten years of racing games since. It is straight out of Pole Position ffs, I can understand why they wanted to change that. I'll reserve judgement until the final game, but I suppose I agree it does change the feel of the game to something other than Sega Rally.

The groove racing... is not as distinct as interviews have made it sound, but it is there. I think on a tougher track with improved AI it would be much more apparent. The rubber banding can sod off though, I agree.

I think having a etheral precession of cars is EXACTLY what one would do... I mean, thats the actual FORMAT of the game... its like having Virtua Fighter as a scroll along beat'em up... sure its fighting, but its not right... its just not right.... nooooooooooo

As for tone and style, I think that'll grow on me, the font and all that jazz I kinda don't care about, its slightly offensive that they reuse the samples but its also slightly respectful as well.

Getting Game Over yeeeeeeaaaaahh when you win a race is fantastically bizarre.

To be fair to my Rally skillz I was having a conversation with the wife at the same time and spent some time goofing with the controls and view. I was running in 3rd at one point (lap 2) and then the rubber band kicked in and my game just fell apart. I hit pretty much everything on my final lap

I totally agree with what you're saying Jib. Hopefully they have included a mode to replicate the spaced out cars in the original and I agree whilst the mechanic of 'jam' or pacing cars is an old one it fits a rally game perfectly. It's one of the best things about the original game because you continually have to re-evaluate your passing points in real time. A fraction of a second can be all the difference between making a pass early or having to wait for the next opportunity.

Who knows what the full game is like though eh. I'm guessing though that limited cars and AI plus grid style start are the price we're paying for all that real time rutting and surface interaction calculations. Probably still going to get this though