Mixed signals from the Far East as Microsoft prepares for third territory launch
With Microsoft set to roll out the Xbox 360 in Japan on Saturday - its third territory launch in as many weeks - opinions on the console's prospects in the region remain mixed, but analysts are largely unimpressed by the system.
A number of recent studies have shown that the Xbox 360 is gaining ground with Japanese consumers - local trade association CESA's survey at TGS showed that 23 per cent of consumers want an Xbox 360, compared to just under 21 per cent who are interested in Nintendo's Revolution.
Market analysts, however, are less convinced - with a Forbes survey of leading analysts in the sector in Tokyo showing that most are unimpressed by the software line-up and specifications of the next-gen system.
"We had previously thought that Xbox 360 could gain a major share of the Japanese market by taking some market share from front-runner Sony Computer," commented Mitsubishi UFJ Securities analyst Hirotoshi Murakami.
"But now we think that such a prospect may not be realised, given the limited attractiveness of its titles and lukewarm functions."
The functionality of the device was slammed also by Nobuyuki Kawamata from Tokai Tokyo Research Center, who said that the "basic functions of Xbox 360 are inferior to Sony's next-generation machine" - a contentious point which few in the industry have been able to agree upon, but which seems to be taken as fact in the Far East.
Shinko Securities analyst Yuichi Kobayashi is even down on the global prospects for Xbox 360, telling Forbes that "Unless Sony fails to bring the next-generation PlayStation 3 console to market on time, Microsoft appears to have almost no chance to be the industry leader."
Xbox 360 has always faced an uphill struggle in Japan. Hindered by a lack of locally developed software and key franchises, as well as by a perception that the system design was ugly and a general suspicion of a console product developed overseas, the original Xbox failed to sell even half a million units in the region.
Microsoft has gone out of its way to court Japanese developers for Xbox 360, winning support from former Sega development star Tetsuya Mizugichi, Final Fantasy creator Hironobu Sakaguchi and Street Fighter producer Yoshiki Okamoto, among others.
The firm remains bullish about the prospects for the console in Japan; regional Xbox boss Yoshihiro Maruyama, himself a former executive at key publisher Square Enix, predicted recently that a million Xbox 360s will be sold in Japan by next summer, with two million sold by the end of next year.
Microsoft have failed in Japan before they've even started...again!
What a shame, no I mean it.
The original XBox had some great titles on it and quite a few decent home grown games too (although I'll admit these were significantly less than any of its rivals)
Looks like 360 is dead in the water already. Really they need a big franchise to stand any chance at all and I can't see that happening. Then again I was surprised that Capcom gave such strong support to the Gamecube, so it's not beyond the realms of possilbility if enough money is thrown at a developer.
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"For the next year most of the 360s will end up in the hands of the hardcore gamers because they are the most eager ones. So the first wave of software will reflect that." - Gerhard Florin, Head of EA Europe
Yeah, y'see, I'm not sure it's the savvy Japanese gamer or what? But the logic is that you could buy a '360 now, which is effectively a butcher PlayStation brand machine, or you could wait for the real deal?
The vibe I get is online in Japan isn't particularly sought after in the L!ve format, hence the Nintendo WFC anonymous system format.
Since the L!ve appears to be the killer app atm for the '360 and since Japan don't appear to care... all they have is Ridge Racer 6 (anything else?) which has been pretty much announced for the PS3, with aruguably similar if not better GFX...and the all important brand.
Are these the same analysts who said that the last Xbox would be dead in the water all around the world as well?
Are these the same analysts who said that the last Xbox would be dead in the water all around the world as well?
It hasn't beaten Sony and considering that Microsoft have royally pissed money up against a wall just to even make second really calls into question the validity of their Xbox business model (after all Xbox Live makes a huge loss on the present Xbox and it will get doubly worse on the 360).
Interestingly the biggest group of Xbox Live subscribers is in Tokyo, so that brings the whole global "popularity" of Xbox Live into question methinks.
It really is a shame, because the 360 is (or will be, once it stops madly overheating and crashing every two minutes) a great piece of hardware. The graphical capabilities are fantastic, the technical possibilities are impressive, the ease of use is great... Even the pad is well-designed.
But none of this means anything if the games are crap, and the launch titles are decidedly mediocre over here, so when you look at Japan, where gamers are (shock horror!) discerning, tired, repetetive, underwhelming games are hardly going to sell a million units of the console, no matter how flashy the advertising is.
This isn't Microsoft's fault for making the 360 the way they have, not directly. They need decent Japanese studio support.
It really is all about the games, rather than Microsoft's machine, and anyone who says different is, I suspect, a wanky lifestyle gamer. I'd rather play IK+ or Uridium on the C64 than Tiger Woods on the 360. But that doesn't mean the machine itself is worse than the C64.
Yeah, but they tried that last time around and got their fingies burnt with the whole Sega Shenmue 2 deal. (stupid idea anyway since there was a perfectly good DC version available). Aside from a few decent
Sega titles, the odd Namco fighter and Tekki, where was the Japanese support for the XBox?
It was never going to win unless they hit big. They really needed to close that Square deal and get Final Fantasy as an exclusive.
360 is looking even more bleak, with no big name franchises or big Japanese developers at all featuring in the launch lineup save for Ridge Racer 6.
I've always wondered why they even bother in Japan. I'd just leave the territory well alone altogether and focus efforts on Europe and the West. They've got a much better chance of kicking Sony out of these Territories and then moving into Japan once the brand is fully established. Presumably J Allard and co. are not big players of the boardgame Risk.
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"For the next year most of the 360s will end up in the hands of the hardcore gamers because they are the most eager ones. So the first wave of software will reflect that." - Gerhard Florin, Head of EA Europe
MS have got G.Rev on board, that's enough for me once their games get released...
In terms of market profit, Japan is not really a global playah. However, if you look at the top selling games in the West at least half come from Japan. Sony had the best of both worlds with games like Grand Theft Auto and Gran Turismo, Microsoft didn't. That's why Japan is an important market to succeed in, otherwise the Japanese developers ignore you (as they did with the Xbox).
The 360 is a bit better; Biohazard 5, Metal Gear Solid 4 and Armored Core 4 are all getting 360 and PS3 releases. However, what the 360 needs more than anything else is a brand new top notch Squeenix RPG. All they've currently got is FFXI, which has been out for donkeys years on both PC and PS2. Admittedly there is the Mistwalker games to look firward to but, despite Sakaguchi's involvement, it's not a recognised brand as yet.
It’s a shame really isn’t it, it is such a nice and well designed console.
I think the 360 has had a very successful launch. I don’t recall many giving much of a toss about the Xbox. No doubt jpn devs will make games just for money from the west.
I doubt the suport will be as bad as it was for the Xbox.
errr....
That's freaking cool....
I've always wondered why they even bother in Japan. I'd just leave the territory well alone altogether and focus efforts on Europe and the West. They've got a much better chance of kicking Sony out of these Territories and then moving into Japan once the brand is fully established. Presumably J Allard and co. are not big players of the boardgame Risk.
Ah, but they can't. Everyone knows that the PS3 is going to be technically superior to the 360, and that Sony are going to have better Japanese support, so Microsoft have to get in there now, while they're the only next-gen players. Who's going to buy the machine if they release an inferior box with less support once the brand is developed in Europe and the USA; and the PS3 has already sown up the Japanese market?
Nintendo will get away with releasing less-powerful hardware because they've wisely gone the "We make toys. We're not going for a machine that will run your life for you. We're just trying to let you have fun on our products" route, sidestepping the Microsoft/Sony convergence battle.
Decent support or no, the only chance Microsoft have in Japan is to release now, and push it as hard as possible. Sure, they'll make a loss on the hardware and on Live, but that's not the point. They can lose money all they want in Japan. The games are where they'll make the money, same as always, and if the rest of the world can soak up the Japanese losses, Microsoft will consider it money well spent, so long as they get enough saturation in Japan.
The problem with their strategy seems to have occurred a year or more ago, when they didn't get enough production facilities going. Now it's too late, and they may actually have shot themselves in the foot in their 'safe' territories, because people are pissed off with them for not matching pre-order numbers, so they might lose business because of it. Unlikely, but a possibility.
That's freaking cool....
That Cyber Sled marquee is a tad special
Maybe, but you have to wonder if the money they've pissed away trying to get market share in Japan wouldn't have been better spent supporting Western development teams and building creative capacity in these territories. Let's not forget there was a time in history when America rulled the videogame world.
--EDIT-- Above was in response to Cacky's post earlier.
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"For the next year most of the 360s will end up in the hands of the hardcore gamers because they are the most eager ones. So the first wave of software will reflect that." - Gerhard Florin, Head of EA Europe
Maybe, but you have to wonder if the money they've pissed away trying to get market share in Japan wouldn't have been better spent supporting Western development teams and building creative capacity in these territories. Let's not forget there was a time in history when America rulled the videogame world.
True, but Microsoft cut their losses with Japan, on the original Xbox, very quickly and focused attention on their more successfual Western territories. It still wasn't enough because Sony still had all the Western and Eastern developers under their belt. The same can equally be said for the 360.
Microsoft, by homogenising the market place, have managed to make themselves completely anonymous... which I believe was their goal in a wierd sort of way, and a kind of real acheivement. They were and are after the PlayStation market... it really is BetaMax, VHS isn't it, that's more clear than ever now the technology has plateaued.
Arguably, coming to the market later as Sony are doing isn't entirely stupid, as in the world of statistics and marketing, they should have an advantage. It's about those exclusives isn't it.
GTA a Revolution only title I reckon.
Makes sense, but you can hardly blame Japan for being luke warm over 360 in the wake of Microsoft's eat, shoot and leave shenanigans with XBox.
It's like saying "hey buy this we won't let you down a second time. Promise." Not going to wash with the consumers is it.
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"For the next year most of the 360s will end up in the hands of the hardcore gamers because they are the most eager ones. So the first wave of software will reflect that." - Gerhard Florin, Head of EA Europe
I don't understand something, though. If the Japanese are so into their games, and we know the Xbox had some pretty good must haves in its time, then surely the Japanese, being so savvy about gaming, should have bought it in their droves to get hold of the Very good exclusives that were available on the machine. Things like JSRF, PDO, Halo, Stranger's Wrath etc etc. Or are the Japanese not that gamer savvy and just anti-western?
I don't understand something, though. If the Japanese are so into their games, and we know the Xbox had some pretty good must haves in its time, then surely the Japanese, being so savvy about gaming, should have bought it in their droves to get hold of the Very good exclusives that were available on the machine. Things like JSRF, PDO, Halo, Stranger's Wrath etc etc. Or are the Japanese not that gamer savvy and just anti-western?
The penny drops.
Japanese gamers are individually discerning, just because you have a CD player doesn't mean you have to listen to everything. Most punters are aware of everything but only spend their hard earned cash on games that personally interest them. It's the main reason blanket marketing has a bloody hard time working with the populace (in the way we are used to at least).
As for your examples; Panzer Dragoon was released on the Saturn and Jet Set Radio was released on the Dreamcast, neither of those consoles were received well by the mainstream in Japan (same in the West too I should add). Halo and Stranger's Wrath use a first person view, almost all Japanese gamers hate games with first person views, especially if it's a guy with a gun. You're also confusing successful games with critically acclaimed games, Halo is the only successful game out of those four both over here and in Japan.
The game that sold the Xbox to the Japanese populace, or put it on the map at least, was Steel Battalion. Admittedly, it was a first person orientated game but it offered something that hadn't been seen or played before. If it had half the price on release then the Xbox would have been considerably more successful in Japan.
Japanese gamers are more savvy, after all they don't blow their money on everything
Nintendo will get away with releasing less-powerful hardware because they've wisely gone the "We make toys. We're not going for a machine that will run your life for you. We're just trying to let you have fun on our products" route, sidestepping the Microsoft/Sony convergence battle.
Decent support or no, the only chance Microsoft have in Japan is to release now, and push it as hard as possible. Sure, they'll make a loss on the hardware and on Live, but that's not the point. They can lose money all they want in Japan. The games are where they'll make the money, same as always, and if the rest of the world can soak up the Japanese losses, Microsoft will consider it money well spent, so long as they get enough saturation in Japan.
I completely agree with that, MS have to push in Japan to stand a chance of securing support from more Japanese developers. They know that for the machine to really succeed in the West they need a strong lineup of Japanese games.
None of which really explains the total lack of interest in the Xbox in Japan, and I still don't fully understand why this is. I would have thought Sega and Tecmo's lineup in the first 2 years of the original Xbox would have been enough to gain some footing, but the number of machines sold was really low all the same.
I don't quite get the Live angle either. If you remove voice chat (by unplugging the headset), surely it is still easily anonymous enough for anyone's sensibilities.
I guess fundamentally the machine was too large, too expensive, and has never had quite enough quality Japanese games, but at least this time round MS have got in there first, and if Sony are to be believed about the expense of the PS3, it is reasonably wll priced. Now all they need is a better software lineup, and MS do seem to be working hard at this. When the audience in Japan for Xbox games is so small though, you can understand the reluctance.
No, there has to be something else to this. Some inherant distrust of Microsoft in Japan, but for what reason I don't know.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20051210/akiba.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20051210/xbox1.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20051210/xbox2.htm
Japanese gamers are more savvy, after all they don't blow their money on everything
Unless it's a Mecha, Train Simulator or Pachinko/Mahjong game, yeah?
No, there has to be something else to this. Some inherant distrust of Microsoft in Japan, but for what reason I don't know.
Well, let me tell you the tale of Snow Brand dairy products. Snow Brand was the biggest dairy producer in Japan, bar none. One day it transpired that, apparently, one cow in their herd may have been infected with mad cow's disease. The following day every consumer in Japan refused to buy Snow Brand products. The company went under in less than a week.
That was a firmly established Japanese company.
Microsoft released the original Xbox with severe defects in regards to the disc drives. In that many damaged discs horribly (I got stung with this too). Couple that with a pretty dire console design, which was heavy and bulky, and an "uncomfortable" pad. Basically, Microsoft shot themselves in the foot...with a rocket launcher.
The 360 has met a similar reception upon release and their "spray and pray" business model won't help in the long run either (it didn't with the Xbox).
The problem here is that Microsoft are fucked without decent Japanese developers on board, the 360 has some but not all.
Unless it's a Mecha, Train Simulator or Pachinko/Mahjong game, yeah?
You're using a Western precept that games are bought on social expectation and peer pressure. It's very difficult to predict how the Japanese market responds to any one game because they are individually discerning.
There is something inevitable about MS demise in Japan.
You know they'd buy out anyone to "succeed" too. THeir business practices are well known, and almost fictional to their execution.
Like t'other thread implies though... 1 game and a bit more wedge in my pocket and I'll pick it up.
Can't yet see what that might be though.
Is it just me or does MS marketing strategies seem more and more transparent/amatuer? Or is that beard stroking elitism ripping through the leather patched tweed jacket elbows of my soul?
There is something inevitable about MS demise in Japan.
You know they'd buy out anyone to "succeed" too. THeir business practices are well known, and almost fictional to their execution.
That's the thing, they've already tried to buy Nintendo (and failed). Their problem is that they have to business the proper way when in Japan, it seems that's somehow beyond them at present.
Is it just me or does MS marketing strategies seem more and more transparent/amatuer? Or is that beard stroking elitism ripping through the leather patched tweed jacket elbows of my soul?
Ignoring your shocking use of imagery there (
), Microsoft are noticeably lacking in any kind of marketing savvy for the Japanese release of the 360. It's just the same bullish nonsense again.
No, there has to be something else to this. Some inherant distrust of Microsoft in Japan, but for what reason I don't know.
Well, let me tell you the tale of Snow Brand dairy products. Snow Brand was the biggest dairy producer in Japan, bar none. One day it transpired that, apparently, one cow in their herd may have been infected with mad cow's disease. The following day every consumer in Japan refused to buy Snow Brand products. The company went under in less than a week.
That was a firmly established Japanese company.
Microsoft released the original Xbox with severe defects in regards to the disc drives. In that many damaged discs horribly (I got stung with this too). Couple that with a pretty dire console design, which was heavy and bulky, and an "uncomfortable" pad. Basically, Microsoft shot themselves in the foot...with a rocket launcher.
The 360 has met a similar reception upon release and their "spray and pray" business model won't help in the long run either (it didn't with the Xbox).
The problem here is that Microsoft are fucked without decent Japanese developers on board, the 360 has some but not all.
Unless it's a Mecha, Train Simulator or Pachinko/Mahjong game, yeah?
You're using a Western precept that games are bought on social expectation and peer pressure. It's very difficult to predict how the Japanese market responds to any one game because they are individually discerning.
How can they be individually discerning if en masse they decided not to buy the same dairy product. Sounds more like herd mentality to me.
How can they be individually discerning if en masse they decided not to buy the same dairy product. Sounds more like herd mentality to me.
If a thousand people individually make a decision on something, then that is still a singular decision for each person involved. This is no different.
It makes me laugh when people here go on about Japanese gamers only playing a very select product. It's totally untrue infact it's totally the other way round - it's here where gaming has the narrow minded audience, not in Japan.
What really stunned me was the sheer amount of different types of games different people play, the audience is as diverse as the genres they enjoy, no matter what you are interested in - it's catered for and there's an appreciative audience already! Over here entire genres are disappearing and gamers in general only seem to be able to appreciate a product based on what it looks like and that it follows a very specific criteria - games just arent appreciated as GAMES.
If you honestly think it's all about train sims and Mahjong that's your business, but I can honestly assure you it's not Japanese gamers that are missing out on all the good shit and a wicked gaming community to go with it - infact the imbalance is so great it's depressing.
How can they be individually discerning if en masse they decided not to buy the same dairy product. Sounds more like herd mentality to me.
If a thousand people individually make a decision on something, then that is still a singular decision for each person involved. This is no different.
Sorry? You're gonna need to explain this to me. And let's bring it back to videogames.
If a thousand people in Japan buy a game, then it's based on individual choice.
If a thousand people in England buy a game, then it's based on...what? Peer pressure and market forces?
And Saurian, I imagine there are quite a number of unique and interesting genres over in Japan that the Western don't care for. Then again, I'm sure the reverse is true as well. FPS's spring to mind for one.
It makes me laugh when people here go on about Japanese gamers only playing a very select product. It's totally untrue infact it's totally the other way round - it's here where gaming has the narrow minded audience, not in Japan.
What really stunned me was the sheer amount of different types of games different people play, the audience is as diverse as the genres they enjoy, no matter what you are interested in - it's catered for and there's an appreciative audience already!
Exactly! I've still not had the pleasure of going to Japan
, but what you've said there meshes perfectly with Cacky's point about the Japanese being individually discerning. This is why these myriad of genres can survive in Japan, because the consumers individually decide what they like and then buy it. It'a a mentality that is rare here where we're all influenced by massive image and marketing campaings (sp?)
It's the looks good = is good mentality of the west that is killing everything.
And Saurian, I imagine there are quite a number of unique and interesting genres over in Japan that the Western don't care for. Then again, I'm sure the reverse is true as well. FPS's spring to mind for one.
Fair enough man - Japanese gamers are very narrow minded because they dont play FPS games. Gaming here in the UK etc is incredible and diverse because we all go nuts over graphics while being clueless about game-systems, just about everything we play is tweaked to appeal primarily to the North American teenage/male customer and we cream ourselves over PCs repackaged in console style cases - life is great! ^^
Madbury bruv I gotta get out of here! What they've got for 100yen a play in the arcades out there is better than the online shit they provide for the home consoles! >_< They've got online RPG with card battle systems in the arcade too! - VF.TV (VF5 played online between different arcades) is gonna be incredible - it even supports player interviews!
You dont even need to own a home console out there -
And Saurian, I imagine there are quite a number of unique and interesting genres over in Japan that the Western don't care for. Then again, I'm sure the reverse is true as well. FPS's spring to mind for one.
Fair enough man - Japanese gamers are very narrow minded because they dont play FPS games. Gaming here in the UK etc is incredible and diverse because we all go nuts over graphics while being clueless about game-systems, just about everything we play is tweaked to appeal primarily to the North American customer and we cream ourselves over PCs repackaged in console style cases - life is great! ^^
That's not what I meant. I just don't believe that it's all wine and roses in Japan and all doom and gloom on the gaming front over here. I just don't buy that. I am aware of the shitty chav Need for Speed culture over here, but seriously, when I look at what tops the charts in Japan, it seems equally narrow and predictable.
As an aside and for those saying the West cares for nothing but graphics, isn't the DS doing pretty well over here?
Madbury bruv I gotta get out of here! What they've got for 100yen a play in the arcades out there is better than the online shit they provide for the home consoles! >_< They've got online RPG with card battle systems in the arcade too! - VF.TV (VF5 played online between different arcades) is gonna be incredible - it even supports player interviews!
You dont even need to own a home console out there -
Yeah I heard about that card battle one 'Quest of D'? A couple of friends of mine were over in Japan earlier this year (I missed out because I got married - can't have it all
).
Still Decathlete arrived on S-TV today, so I can experience the arcade gaming equivalent of masterbation when I get home (playing on my own
)
Sorry? You're gonna need to explain this to me. And let's bring it back to videogames.
If a thousand people in Japan buy a game, then it's based on individual choice.
If a thousand people in England buy a game, then it's based on...what? Peer pressure and market forces?
And Saurian, I imagine there are quite a number of unique and interesting genres over in Japan that the Western don't care for. Then again, I'm sure the reverse is true as well. FPS's spring to mind for one.
A thousand average Japanese consumers are more informed and discerning than a thousand average British consumers. Put it this way; games sell in Britain based on the size of the in-store point of sale marquee. Whereas in Japan, consumers use resources such as Famitsu and their own previous gaming experience to make a purchase.
The latter may sound familiar to you or I but the average casual consumer in Britain pretty much buys whatever is in front of them.
Parents also have no clue about games in Britain whereas parents and grandparents in Japan are particularly savvy and know what's what when it comes to gaming. We are fifteen to twenty years behind the Japanese market, the general public in Britain is still learning which is why they are so easily exploited.
That's not what I meant. I just don't believe that it's all wine and roses in Japan and all doom and gloom on the gaming front over here. I just don't buy that. I am aware of the shitty chav Need for Speed culture over here, but seriously, when I look at what tops the charts in Japan, it seems equally narrow and predictable.
As an aside and for those saying the West cares for nothing but graphics, isn't the DS doing pretty well over here?
The charts aren't really indicative of the Japanese industry as they are here. The same number of games are bought in Japan (probably more), the difference is that the purchases are spread across multiple games and not concentrated on small few (as in our top 10). You don't really get gaming trends that much in Japan either, not like they used to and that superficially looks as though the market is in decline. Not to mention the sheer volume of second hand games bought really skews the Western perception on what is regarded to be a "successful" industry.
...oh...the DS is doing alright but the market will probably change post-Christmas (a PSP and GTA:LCS will be a popular stocking filler this year). Still the success of the DS does show that the market is changing and the populace is slowly becoming more discerning on the games they want to play.
This also made me laugh...
Yep, that's a 360 with a 20,000 yen price cut (about 100 quid basically).
I l0v3 teh S0nYz!!
Can't agree more with what Saurian has said, it seems obvious given the breadth of games Japan produces that gamers there play all sorts, more genres and styles of game than any other nation.
I still don't get why the 360 is such a turn off though - Saur, what do you reckon?
Am I the only Xbox L!ve player here? That may explain a few peoples' apathy towards the MS product.
The XB1 and the 360 live or die on their Live usage, because MS's system gives access to the greatest, most comprehensive and intuitive online experience ever devised. Take, for example, Halo 2. Extremely average in SP, absolutely essential and constantly evolving online. Splinter Cell 3? Magical experience (albeit too short, but that was machine limitation) that has no equal in any other genre or on any other system. PGR2? Again, fairly boring SP but huge, sprawling and exciting under the XBL umbrella.
Already, reports have it that the wobbly reception PD0 has got is forgotten as soon as you start playing online. PGR3 is meant to be immense.
You can't comprehend the value of Xbox games until you play them on Live. Many are geared towards this functionality, and sets even average games apart from the crowd by being comprehensive and innovative online (look at Sniper Elite, which I'm itching to play with my mate online in co-op).
You have to ignore the US (and sometimes UK) idiots on XBL in DM games, but co-op or team-based games have been (and I don't use the word lightly) revolutionised on XBL, in a way that the PC community has failed to replicate in its 15 or so online boom years. You can't judge an MS console or its games without Live usage, and this is both the machine's USP and to its detriment. An essential component, though.
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♦
"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
I'm a live subscriber, but rarely use it. It got a reasonable hammering on the Outrun2 demo and that's about it. The problem I have with XB1 live is with the matching of skills. You've got no hope in most games unless you've been playing the game from day 1 non-stop. Seems like they've sorted this with the 360.
For me though the problem is more fundamental than that, playing on Live just feels like a poor proxy for actually playing against people in the same room. For me social gaming is where it's at and Live just feels dissapointing in comparison.
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"For the next year most of the 360s will end up in the hands of the hardcore gamers because they are the most eager ones. So the first wave of software will reflect that." - Gerhard Florin, Head of EA Europe
Courtesy of Enterbrain (the publisher that releases Famitsu magazine):
- 27.11.98 Dreamcast (Yen 29.800): 101,490
- 04.03.99 WonderSwan (Yen 4.800): 102,655
- 04.03.00 PlayStation2 (Yen 39.800): 630,552
- 21.03.01 Game Boy Advance (Yen 15.000): 611,504
- 14.09.01 Gamecube (Yen 25.000): 133,719
- 22.02.02 Xbox (Yen 34.800): 123,929
- 02.12.04 Nintendo DS (Yen 15.000): 441,485
- 12.12.04 PSP (Yen 20.790 / 26.040): 166,074
- 13.09.05 Game Boy Micro (Yen 12.000): 148,117
- 10.12.05 Xbox 360 (Yen 37.900): 62,135
That's really bad.
As for Live, the biggest group of subscribers (according to Microsoft) is in Tokyo. Kinda brings the global popularity of the service into focus really.
Well, let me tell you the tale of Snow Brand dairy products. Snow Brand was the biggest dairy producer in Japan, bar none. One day it transpired that, apparently, one cow in their herd may have been infected with mad cow's disease. The following day every consumer in Japan refused to buy Snow Brand products. The company went under in less than a week.
That was a firmly established Japanese company.
Microsoft released the original Xbox with severe defects in regards to the disc drives. In that many damaged discs horribly (I got stung with this too). Couple that with a pretty dire console design, which was heavy and bulky, and an "uncomfortable" pad. Basically, Microsoft shot themselves in the foot...with a rocket launcher.
The 360 has met a similar reception upon release and their "spray and pray" business model won't help in the long run either (it didn't with the Xbox)..
Well what about the Playstation? (1 & 2)
They have a shit build quality, virtually everyone I know have gone through two consoles.
I'm a big fan of Live, perhaps not quite to the same extent as Treble though. Probably because Halo and PGR don't appeal all that much to me, but I've played them and enjoyed them.
The Live setup is great though, technically sound, and the later games are completely seemless.
The Live Arcade sounds great too, exactly the sort of area innovation is really needed to push online usage. If only MS would open it up to homebrew somehow, similarly to how they intend to push selling user-authored add-ons.
For me, Sony and MS are much of a muchness, I don't care a lot for either.
I'm willing to buy their kit though to get hold of the games I want, and at the moment second place and bundles of cash mean MS are putting in far more effort than Sony are.
I would like the 360 to do well in Asia, so Japanese devcos could push the development of the machine as well.
The PS3 does nothing at all that interests me at the moment; at least 360 has Live and Arcade.
I'm a live subscriber, but rarely use it. It got a reasonable hammering on the Outrun2 demo and that's about it. The problem I have with XB1 live is with the matching of skills. You've got no hope in most games unless you've been playing the game from day 1 non-stop. Seems like they've sorted this with the 360.
For me though the problem is more fundamental than that, playing on Live just feels like a poor proxy for actually playing against people in the same room. For me social gaming is where it's at and Live just feels dissapointing in comparison.
Maybe because you're not playing with friends? You can match skills, meet up and practice, talk like you talk on the phone....
Anyone you bring into your group becomes a mate on their own merit. It takes time, though, and a game you are willing to get good at.
Also, your argument de-emphasises the co-op games. There weren't loads on XB1, but tons of games on 360 are going to be co-op over live. See how much fun PC and Jibs have had with Mario Kart online, and that's what you can expect with co-op play with friends online
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
Co-op Mario Kart? Oh no
I think only I'm enjoying Mario Kart online
... due to the fact
I always WIN.
Bet you got headshot like a n00b bitch on Halo 2 though. Swings and roundabouts...
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
Yeah, Halo 2 I just didn't play enough. A couple of weeks of online fun before all the players became too good.
I just couldn't be arsed to learn the maps to be honest.
Even though you are ranked on Halo 2, it *is* exploited. To get good, you really need to be playing with people you understand and trust - you just learn so much from them.
There's a point here about the accessiblility of online games, with Mario Kart and Halo 2 as arguments in either direction, but I can't be arsed making it
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
I've said before online is dead to me. Just the faffin that I find tedious. I did like the sound of the roaming game server model thing for HALO2... but then that combos with my utter apathy towards first person shooters in general.
The limited onliness of Mario Kart is a boon for me personally, no server list, or anyhting just means I can treat it like another game mode. But when I play the Xbox live games, maybe because its "on tv" I want a more straightforward, yet involving experience.
And to garuntee that you have to get all yer buddies together, online at the same time, and all to a reasonable quality. And with all that faffage, you might as well get together in the flesh and play Bomberman.
I am slowly warming to Live again, and the 360 model looks like it might help a little. It's just online games seem to have an inital 3 month release window of folk playing it, then its dead, and you should be investing in the next online game.
You're lucky to get 3 people on OutRun2.
And to garuntee that you have to get all yer buddies together, online at the same time, and all to a reasonable quality. And with all that faffage, you might as well get together in the flesh and play Bomberman.
Well, my mates live a reasnable distance away and are on at funny times. At our Halo 2 peak, we'd just go on any time between 7pm and 10pm, and eventually one of us would join up and seamlessly join up for a scrap. Easier than sorting out trudging over to their house at a particular time.
You're lucky to get 3 people on OutRun2.
Well yeah, but that's because the game's hideously broken online. A huge shame as most high-profile XBL games perform as well (if not better) over Live. OR2 was a wasted opportunity to bring 'old skool' gamers into the fold. Luckily, they stuck with 2D fighters too, and that seemed to do the job
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"
Halo2 is an interesting one for me. I got given the game around near enough to launch time, but never took it online. I think the problem is more to do with my setup at home than anything else. The big TV is downstairs and that's where the XBox is hooked up (we use it as a PAL DVD player). TV is mostly used by the wife for soaps and the like in the evenings, which takes a chunck out of any gaming time. In addition I've only got one wireless bridge and that's hooked up to the computer upstairs. My router is in the hallway, which means I either have to run a cable through the living room door or invest in another wireless bridge.
In short it's an arse to set up. If it was just there everytime I turned the XBox on then I think I'd be using it a lot more. Oh on top of that my headset is bust and the cats have mauled the spoffle.
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"For the next year most of the 360s will end up in the hands of the hardcore gamers because they are the most eager ones. So the first wave of software will reflect that." - Gerhard Florin, Head of EA Europe
Halo2 is an interesting one for me. I got given the game around near enough to launch time, but never took it online. I think the problem is more to do with my setup at home than anything else. The big TV is downstairs and that's where the XBox is hooked up (we use it as a PAL DVD player). TV is mostly used by the wife for soaps and the like in the evenings, which takes a chunck out of any gaming time. In addition I've only got one wireless bridge and that's hooked up to the computer upstairs. My router is in the hallway, which means I either have to run a cable through the living room door or invest in another wireless bridge.
In short it's an arse to set up. If it was just there everytime I turned the XBox on then I think I'd be using it a lot more. Oh on top of that my headset is bust and the cats have mauled the spoffle.
I'm not sure it could be any easier to set up really. I have a cable that runs from my cable modem through the house and now into the 360. I didn't have to do anything else. I just turn it on, it's there. £2 extra a month to NTL and my girlfriend can be on the PC at the same time as I'm on Live. It was absolutely painless.
Yeah but my problem is really the XBox should be upstairs on my other TV in the Dedicated Games Room(TM) I can't really run a cable down the stairs, which means I need another wireless bridge or install a proper home network.
It also means I have to lug the brick back downstairs when we want to watch a DVD. It's just a pain, the only way around it would be to force my wife to watch soaps on the TV upstairs, surrendering the living room to me. Never going to happen is it!
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"For the next year most of the 360s will end up in the hands of the hardcore gamers because they are the most eager ones. So the first wave of software will reflect that." - Gerhard Florin, Head of EA Europe
To avoid this very hassle, I just use a monitor with the XB (and will with the 360). Even a cheap CRT will make it look amazing, but anything will do. Do you have a PC downstairs? Ideal solution.
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"Obviously some sort of anti-menstrual reference in the world of gay utopian fantasy"