In the past few months I've lost my life to World of Warcraft. So far I've played for an entire week, and my character is level 38 of 60. I have a long way to go, and have no plans of stopping. It's a great game, and although it's my first MMORPG, I've heard it is one of the best in the genre.
However, it is so flawed its unreal.
Imagine the scene - you receive a quest to goto a certain area, kill a few beasts and plant some explosives next to destroy something. You run, you kill, you explode. Hurray, quest complete...but five seconds later everything respawns, and the exploded feature is now rebuilt. MMORPG's are designed to suck you in, you are your character, you have social responsibilities and in general, you are expected to live like you would in the real world. Every quest in the game - and there are thousands - break the illusion of living in another world. This is a game. Bang. This is a game.
WoW even includes specific servers for serious gamers wanting to properly live as their character, full-on rollplaying where normal English is frowned upon. Live, breath and act like a Dwarf. Amusing, but failed, since at every turn you are reminded of these oh-so-obvious "game-like" features.
Now, this is a long-standing flaw of the genre and in no way specific to Warcraft, but if the genre is to move on successfuly it needs seriously look into these areas. Designers are relying on the path carved out by the likes of Everquest all those years ago, and the cracks are starting to show.
WoW, by its very nature, is supreamly addictive and well made, but I find it disappointing that the game is so backwards in some regards. The genre needs to come up with a way of coping with a fully adaptive world, where your actions are unique and serve a greater purpose. Rather than the quest to blow something up when you want, they need a way where this is a scheduled event that will take place in three days...and everyone needs to join in to help the cause.
Massively Multiplayer, but only in terms of sheer numbers of people playing on one server. Don't be fooled into thinking there is genuine teamwork (at least on a larger scale than quick missions). Essentially, MMORPG's are single player titles, which I think pretty much misses the point, and potential, of the genre's name.
Adding to this (cannot find edit function??), is the only sign of hope in the genre - Guildwars. This is a game that potentially answers my questions, but I'm unsure as to how well it'll work until the game is released next friday. Guildwars (created by ex-blizzard staff) is unique to you and your party, however this uniqueness only goes as far as your current quest and your party. You'll never be known as "the one to killed a dragon" across the server, but it may be a start...
You raise an interesting point. My brother and a few of my closest friends are seriously in to these games, however I myself struggle to find the "game" within these MMORPG.
Essentially it's who can move and click the mouse most efficiently and set up a series of buffered keyboard shortcuts. Where is the fun in that? Your point about the environment is valid, but it's difficult to see how a community can develop without some degree of shared experience. Therefor fixed quests are likely to be a mainstay of the genre for some time. The only way I can see out of this is to give each player a highlights show when they log on to keep them up to date with the story so far in the game world. Then they can fully interact and hold meaningful conversations with other players.
Fot all its limitations I can clearly see why PSO stood out from the crowd, it's probably the only example of a MMORPG (although 4 on a quest isn't that massive) that actually forced players to work together to complete quests. It's also the only time that players from across the world have successfully been able to play together within a single game world.
One final point it seems that most of these games are soured by cheats. There are a number of techniques such as "window dragging", which aren't strictly cheating, but can give the player an advantage. For me this confirms that these games are not well suited to the PC in the longterm and I'm sure we will see more and more making it on to consoles in the future.
Spent a long time in FFXI and it is a gaming experience quite unlike anything else I've ever had. When it grabs you it does take over your gaming time to a massive degree but I honestly don't regret a single moment I spent in game and whilst I haven't officially 'quit' the longer I stay out the harder it is to muster the encouragement to go back.
The sad thing is Madbury, the comment you make about failing to see the 'game' in them is true to a certain extent but does miss the point (what a horrible phrase but I struggled to find a better one). When you boil it down to its constituent parts it does essentially become a case of kill this monster for X period of time, gain EXP, level up and repeat, whilst in between spending concerted amounts of time focussed solely on making virtual money for the next piece of equipment in an attempt to make your avatar even more powerful.
However, to view it like this can do it a disservice in the same way that describing VF4Evo as being a game where you 'punch and kick' until you or your opponent runs out of energy. There is always something more, that special something that gives more depth to what initially appears flat and straightforward.
In FFXI (and MMORPG in general) it's that feeling of playing with potentially massive groups of like-minded people. Multiplayer gaming has always been championed as a great experience, but playing FFXI took it to a completely new level. I had a small (in comparison to others in game) group of friends in the game (the Linkshell had about 15 people who I would consider full-time members) and spending game time with them whether it be to complete quests, grind EXP or just generally hang around there was a genuine friendship there. This reached a peak earlier this year when 6 of us grouped together to defeat the Shadow Lord (the game's original end boss before subsequent updates). None of us knew what to expect or where exactly we needed to go but we battled through Castle Zvahl as a unit, ploughing through demons and beastman until we eventually found ourselves outside the Throne Room.
The feeling of nervousness at that moment was equalled only by the sense of excitment and adventure. It was events like these that I got into the game in the first place. Must have been waiting outside the door for 10 minutes whilst everyone got prepared and passed around words of encouragement and bravado.
We obviously won the battle (and it proved to be a little easier than expected) but it was a monumental night of gaming and if I was GamesTM retro editor, it would be a Great Gaming Moment in a future issue
However, the genre's strength (the massive playerbase) is also its greatness weakness. For every potentially great player who you would be honoured to play with, there is another that makes your experience worse for knowing them. Also, as you correctly mentioned there is a seedy underbelly that is difficult to quantify, that feel a need to cheat and use out of game assistance (including Real Money Trade (RMT) to improve their character which does have an impact on all those players who wish to succeed on their play alone.
It was this factor that led to me questioning whether I wanted to continue or not and it is something that I ponder every single day as to whether I want to return.
Thanks for that C, err I mean Rarehero.
My post was a little flippent wasn't it. I do understand the draw of these games to an extent, hopefully my little experiment with EVE Online when I get back home will allow me to fully understand their appeal. Your comparison with Virtua Fighter is an interesting one. Ultimately playing video games is entertainment and essentially fruitless. The big difference between a game like VF and a MMORPG is that progression in VF is entirely based on the players skill and those skills can be developed with practice. Within a MMORPG progression in the game is heavily time dependent. Sink more time in and get further, this is most acute in EVE where your character can learn skills even when you are offline. MMORPG have a roll to fill as they are totally inclusive, anyone who can move a mouse and use a keyboard can play regardless of gaming skill.
The problem for me I guess is that I'm lazy to an extent. I want to be able to shortcut the learning process. You can do that in a skill based game sometimes, by applying knowledge learned during previous games (e.g. street fighter -> King of Fighters). It doesn't really matter how many MMORPG you play, start playing in a new universe and you have to start from scratch with no way of shortcutting the system.
Oh and on the RMT front, I've heard of whole industries in Asia where rooms of underpaid peeps groom characters and items to sell on ebay for profit. Scary stuff.
...
That is true and in my comparison I was in no way trying to say that on a skill based level the games could be compared. Just I was trying to illustrate how, to someone who has no in depth experience with a game/genre can often fail to see the aspects of the game that make it greater than its constituent parts.
On the RMT it is probably true. The term 'chinese gilseller' became stuff of legend. Oh and I never viewed your post as flippant
RMT exists all over the place - check out http://www.mysupersales.com/ for instance. You can actually buy a top-level character from any mmorpg; the people who do this must be incredible troubled in real life. You buy WoW for £30, you spend £6 a month for using the server...and then you skip instantly to the end spending over £300 to get the best character. Nice!
These 'farmers' are't doing much harm though, in my opinion. If people want to skip chunks of the game then so be it. It isn't effecting me in any way, so I don't really care.
Regarding Guild Wars, I think this could really be the next PSO. It is very easy to level up to the top level (20), the game then continues after as you learn new skills. It isn't based on time\xp either, you become better through skill and skill alone. A level 1 character can defeat a level 20 if they are good enough. You eventually learn around 70 different skills, but can only use 8 at a time, and each is roughly the same power.
I think really interesting also, is that the developers can instantly upload an 'event' without any downloads on your behalf. Since everyone in the world plays on a single server, this could make for some awesomely epic moments. In the beta for instance, the session ended with a spectacular firework display over the entire world. You can download the video from www.guildwars.com , its quite pretty.
You know, I think it could be superb. I have a collected edition on order anyway
However, the genre's strength (the massive playerbase) is also its greatness weakness. For every potentially great player who you would be honoured to play with, there is another that makes your experience worse for knowing them. Also, as you correctly mentioned there is a seedy underbelly that is difficult to quantify, that feel a need to cheat and use out of game assistance [...] to improve their character which does have an impact on all those players who wish to succeed on their play alone.
Agreed.
One good move are the (virtual) worlds created by the DC and Xbox. Halo 2 online has its flaws, and there are glitch exploits, but the most annoying thing are team killers and droppers. Some of the glitches are now fixed (although there are bound to be a few new ones because of the new maps), too. Overall, though, the game is free of hacks or people 'buying' greatness.
The problem comes with, as I say, droppers, team killers, people who are racist/homophobic and/or shriek down the mic and a whole host of irritations that cheapen the experience. The only way to stop people behaving like this is to ban them - to monitor the servers and to also listen to peoples' legitimate complaints.
The problem with this is, MS are terrified of banning people outright if they transgress their rules, fearful of losing subscribers and generating lawsuits (the headlines write themselves, '"Microsft stole my money and kicked me off their servers!" Jimmy, 11, in tears today after cruel Bill Gates banned him for "being too loud"').
STEAM is attempting to create an environment where cheating is less commonplace, and L!ve almost totally eliminates hacks (although they should test maps more thoroughly for glitches and potential exploits), but you aren't going to stamp out ignorant behaviour unless you stick your neck out and punish - properly and harshly - people who break the rules of conduct.
______
♫ I promise to commit no acts of violence,
Neither physical or otherwise,
If things come alive
Fuser, If guild wars is all you say it is then I'm very interested in this game. It sounds rather special and could be just the thing to convince me. The single server idea is appealing too one of the reasons I find EVE an interesting proposition.
...
That’s exactly the problem that FFXI faces at the moment. You have this base of players (the aforementioned ‘chinese gilsellers’ although whether they are actually Chinese or not is debatable) that will monopoloise certain ‘profitable’ areas and resort to ‘dirty; tactics against those players who beat thwm to claims of rare/profitable monsters. However, Square-Enix find themselves in a difficult situation whereby to ban these people could lead to a not insignificant dent in the money received from subscribers.
I’m an idealist so I feel that they should outright ban anyone who acts in this way, in order to improve the gaming experience for those ‘true’ players but deep down they are a business with obvious financial needs to meet and removing a large number of players (no matter how undesirable they may be) without putting major dent into those finances.
Also the whole issue RMT for in game items is moving in potentially dangerous directions. Already Sony Online Entertainment have announced plans to create an aution site for the sole purpose of selling in game items and characters for Everquest 2 and I also remember a few weeks back hearing of Microsoft talking of plans for Xbox 360 online services where people would be able to pay extra for superior in game content (i.e. faster vehicles in a racing game). Perhaps I’m being overly traditionalist but, outside of the cost of buying the game, I feel my financial situation in real life (or lack thereof
) should have no impact in how well I am able to compete in an online gaming environment.
Will we see a time where hardwork, skill and dedication can be overcome by simply having a higher limit on your credit card?
I think The Shape brought up an interesting point in his latest gamesTM piece - there is a bread of gamers who are so interested in winning, that they will do so at the expense of actually playing the game. He goes on about a friend who likes a tank game, who is using every auto-assist in the game so all he does is press the space bar for fire - yet he likes the game just this way because he can always win.
I guess this is the same mentality. I hate to point just at America because I know this isn't the only place where it occures, but I feel it is perhaps worse than over here for this kind of attitude. The whole "american dream", and "being the best" social focus has formed a breed of gamers who becoming the "best" through any means is far more important than actually playing an enjoying. Again, I apologise for the leaping guesswork, but if people are so pressured into succeeding in real life and cannot achieve what others have set them, then is it any wonder that there is a group of gamer who have to win at games in order to make them feel better about themselves? It's all about feeling less of a failure at the end of the day, or perhaps more to the point, being perceived as a success.
I think what Everquest 2 has done, actively promoting such behaviour, is a very poor move. I don't agree that these people harm the enjoyment of others (at least in a non-player Vs player envrionment), but actively promoting it is just stupid.
Had a Halo 2 game last night where my mate and I were playing with 2 Yanks on our team, and there was 1 UK bloke on theirs. They won by 2 or 3 kills, close game. All the Yanks were all "woo-hoo! In your face!" and all that bollocks. I mustered up enough dignity to say "Good game, red" and the one English bloke said, "Yeah, good, close game that!" whilst the Yanks went on hollering.
So yeah the competitive nature of the Americans can get a bit irritating, to say the least. The difference in etiquette between the two nations is pretty massive, although I can't tar them all with the same brus: the times Uk people are playing is normally just the time when US school kids are getting home, so we have to 'suffer the little children' during the evening
______
♫ I promise to commit no acts of violence,
Neither physical or otherwise,
If things come alive
Seems I got kicked from EVE because my credit card expired, I didn't even get to create a character
. That was a waste of money.
Really cba with it now. My brother has stopped playing it anyway and is now engrossed in WoW.
What I am going to try is PSOBB. I downloaded the client over the weekend and since it's on a free Beta at the moment it's the ideal oportunity to get my toe wet. I've dabbled in PSO before console side and this PC version looks the same if not better. The visuals are certainly lush in the lobby areas at least (haven't ventured down to Ragol yet)
If any peeps here fancy giving this a whirl on Friday night (I'm at a loose end) then I'd be up for a game. I assume it follows the same party of 4 stuff as the console versions.
My dabble into EVE Online crashed a burned for a second time, I basically don't care for the entire idea... it seems to be all about politics and social interaction with faceless people... I get enough of that every day. The kind of MMORPG or MMOG or even just basically Counterstrike vaguely interests me, is it because I'm making the experience shallow because I'm not wearing a cape or because the whole thing is entirely shallow?
Well the little I have played of PSO is pretty shallow in terms of gameplay, but the neato thing about PSO is that it's small groups of four peeps and you have to work together in order to finish the quests. Most of the teamworking revolves around splitting off from each other in order to activate 4 switches simultaneously and stuff like that. Ofcourse when a cool item pops up the dynamic is reversed and it's a free for all once more.
Aside from that its console origins mean that it's pretty straight forward to work out how to play the game. It's far less stat heavy than a lot of the PC MMORPG and it does feature a very very simple combo system which requires some degree of skill and judgement to exploit fully.
Come on you know you want to give it a whirl on Friday
--EDIT-- Oh the other sick thing about PSO is that progression is quite rapid and very well controlled by the game. That next cool item is always just around the corner. It doens't take itself too seriously either with frying pans and samba maracas featuring as some of the weapons
That’s exactly the problem that FFXI faces at the moment. You have this base of players (the aforementioned ‘chinese gilsellers’ although whether they are actually Chinese or not is debatable) that will monopoloise certain ‘profitable’ areas and resort to ‘dirty; tactics against those players who beat thwm to claims of rare/profitable monsters. However, Square-Enix find themselves in a difficult situation whereby to ban these people could lead to a not insignificant dent in the money received from subscribers.
I find this a really interesting idea. The whole principle of these games are that you are entering a different world but similar principles apply to what we see in everyday life. These people are like entrepreneurs in a way they've recognised that they can monopolise these profitable areas and be a more powerful entity in the game because of it.
In my experience of online gaming through xbox live I find this mentality to win is by no means instilled in just Americans. If you play Pro Evo 4 or DOA ultimate then you constantly come across people who'll always pick the best team or they'll always be that Jann Lee guy and be happily to pound you into the ground time after time.
Signed up for PSOBB full and proper yesterday. I've got a level 4 Hunter called Madbury (not very original, but there you go).
Been on a couple of good sessions so far. Looks like Sega will be running some special cups and events as well as the quests from the console versions. Team system looks interesting too. So far I'm enjoying it, last time I played PSO was on the Gamecube and I got to about Lvl 13 before getting bored.
We'll see...
Is this still in beta, or do you have to purchase a subscription now?
I have to say, I am rather taken with the idea of playing PSO again, and the improvements sound cool.
It's on subs now. £6 a month, but you get a free 2 week trial period
before you have to sign up.
The game works well with a USB controller. I'm using a magicbox and a DC pad for that authentic feel, but it also allows for a number of additional keyboard shortcuts.
The big plus is hopefully (fingies crossed) there won't be any silly cheating this time around.
Cheating! on a PC Online game... oh how very unlikely...
Player data is stored server side now (no offline mode), which should radically cut down on cheating.
As Paper says, most of the 'antics' that people got up to before required a hacked save game. Storing data on the server should limit the damage (or at the very least make it more difficult for the cheating scum).
Also Sega were quick and willing to Ban peeps during the Beta stage, so it looks like their moderation is up to scratch.
I can still remember those glorious first four hours playing PSO when it blew me away. I'd never played a MMORPG before then, and the whole idea of teaming up with people in this dizzingly electrifying multi-coloured world, being protected against a hell raising dragon amazed me.
I never did recapture the magic of first playing PSO the more I got into it, though I'm tempted by this new edition, so long as it isn't some silly card-based diversion.
Essentially it's a remake of Ep1 and 2, with some tweaks and special cups and quests added. There is also a new team mode, which enables groups of people to stay in touch essentially. Seeing as this is now the umpteenth iteration of the game I'm hoping it will be suitable robust.
There is also an indication that Ep4 will be making its way to PSOBB, but I don't expect to see anything in this direction for a while.
I'd played MMOG or MMORPGS before, but this had a similar effect on me. This was because of the immediacy of it, and the lack of gears and wheels that you get with PC games. By just sticking in a controller and modem and the disc you had an online universe to drop into whenever you wished. Whereas the PC equivilent is patches, keyboards and agro. The DC distilled all that into an acutal entertaining experience with so little hassle.
Actually it's retained it's console roots. The menu system is exactly the same, it supports gamepads and keyboard control and patches/updates itself whenever it needs to. It still feels like a console game at heart, which is why I'm loving it. Up to level 5 now