Really?
I've been brainwashed, probably, but I've really got into Forza. Or atleast I think I've cracked the way to play these snorathon carcollect'emups.
Its pretty simple really, you vs the track. The physics engine on Forza is good enough to make it enteratining, especially with the wheel. Once you disregard the AI and the completely stupid "trying to make a game out of having too many cars and classes and a money system that falls apart after 10 races" and that whole excuse of "making the game as difficult for yourself and discipline yourself by not entering cars that are too powerful even though the game lets you because they can't think of a way of getting people to play the game without destroying their egos" thang.
Well, there are quite alot of hurdles really.
ONCE, once you get over that, or more specifically, I get over that... its taken over ten years, and the continual improvement of console "driving simulation" physics... you vs the track, getting a car together, tuning it up, sorting the progression out.
Its quite entertaining.
It seems with alot of these new games, that are content driven, it takes an age to actually find the game to play. Once you've battled through all the bullet points and marketing guff, someone somewhere has created a tiny part of the game, its sneaked through, that is genuinely interesting to play, there are a few other examples knocking around of a mainstream game that actually has a game in there.
Hey ho.
I'm feeling we need to explore this subject a bit more. I'm not really sure where or why the 'game' part of a lot of the mainstream stuff has gone. I also flatly fail to see why you can't have oodles of content (if you like) and a decent game too.
I mean the creative part surely is the game design. You want a tight team of bods sorting that out. Making sure there's a system of sorts and that the controls aren't completely detached and the whole thing is, well, fun.
Then you can have an army of talentless morons just pumping in content if you want.
It's the fucking media's fault really all this bollocks about vfm and game length has killed proper tight mainstream game design. I'm in an arcade gaming mood today obviously
Seriously though Jib if your going to play it for the physics and all that then you're better off with one of the proper Sims like RFactor or Live For Speed. You know it.
Totally Off Topic, but I've got Little Big Planet now and that's another prime example of what I'm talking about. Loads of content and some interesting ideas, but the execution is so damned frustrating. If only they'd sorted out the 3 planes of movement and the jumping it would be loads loads better than it is. I mean seriously how hard would it have been to raise the camera 10 degrees and give the player some proper control over which damned movement plane they're on. All I want is an advanced control mode where I can flip planes using some buttons is that too much to ask?
Forza 3 demo:
nicer handling (appears to convey a decent amount of weight transfer in the handling)
nicer collisions (no spinning wildly into the grass after hitting a leaf)
nicer menus (more contemporary and very very clean)
nicer gfx (less like a xbox port, more fidelity on everything)
What strikes me as odd is the gfx are so impressive they go straight over your head, like it was a genuine expectation they were meant to be that good... then the realisation that the obvious technical excellence is completely pointless without any character whatsoever. Without the technical reason to fudge something with a bit a creative flair its just a bit hohum visually, there are some lens flare and lighting with the sun to try and invigorate the track a little, but generally the visuals are quite stark.
Its not as simulationy as a SimBin game as far as I can tell, even on Advanced difficulty it took me 5 goes to win, the Expert difficulty does give you clutch... and I doubt I can implement that with a face button on my wheel.
The weight transfer on acceleration and brake is where the game is and with the rolling track in the demo you get a genuine impression of the effect of road position in a 3 dimensional sense on the 4 points of road contact (i.e. the wheels) meaning you can position the car in such a way to maximise grip, mechanical deceleration etc, meaning it plays alot more naturally than you would expect if you are use to driving (at least thats what the subliminal messages were saying).
In cockpit view while nice uses too much real estate and either psychologically or framratery harms the overall experience for me, losing that visual information shaves about 10% of the sensory input you need, and the nose view gives a great sense of speed and that camera also lets you feel the plunges and rises very viscerally.
Another nice thing is the Leaderboard system, I've not seen this in any other game, but then I don't Leaderboard that much, its quite an obvious solution to quite a bug bear of mine. When you are timetrailing vs the rest of the known universe coming 50,000th isn't much of a draw, however they've got in what percentile of that group you've attained, making it feel alot less pointless and having a less incremental step through the ladder. Its a really simple idea, I'm sure it must've been done elsewhere. So initially I was say top 10%, now I am top 1% where having an actual ranking is more digestible.
Generally give it a punt, however probably pointless without a wheel, and it won't convert anyone into the genre. However I'd say for those not inclined to timetrialing, tweaking etc, the demo alone is an entire game... all you need it one track, one car, a decent handling model and a leaderboard system and thats a game as far as I am concerned.
My Internets be busy tonight
I want to love a game like this, perhaps Forza is the one to to capture my heart. What's the lowdown on the new GT? Is the distinction now that Forza is for the real heads whilst GT is for the tyre kickers?
This is my take, but GT would have to do something radically different to have anything approaching a realistic handling model, I think even GT sells itself as merely a car garage simulation not an actual car driving simulation, do they still have that subtitle?
Whereas Forza although obviously a total rip off of GT and the studio Turn 10 was created purely by Microsoft as a GT game making department it seems they've decided on making an approachable simulation in so much as you can see the tyre pressures and real time road contact onscreen as you drive.
That's not to say that Forza doesn't hold your hand, I mean the collision detection in Forza 2 is hilarious and I have no doubt that Forza 3 will contain some interesting irregularities.
http://kotaku.com/5369813/real-racing-will-affect-gran-turismo
That says it all doesn't it... absolutely nothing whatsoever.
Working 2 months on a damage model for game that is going to be release when?
Also, word on the FIFA Street is that the PSP version of the game is, err, a bit mediocre, or something.
This is hilarious. The series basically peaked with GT2, they should go back and play that game first to get a clue. Even then I bet it has dated badly.
Call me dumb, but what I don't understand is why it takes them so bloody long. OK so they have to record the engine noise, exhaust note and do the 3D models and textures for what 300 cars? This should have all been in the can years ago though. I mean it's not like you need to re-record the same vehicle over and over for each new game. And the 3D models should be built up from raw data collected with a laser scanner ONCE.
It's almost like the whole architecture of GT isn't setup properly to allow for incremental design and improvement. You'd hope that they're simulating the actual bits of a car (tyres, engine, transmission etc.) through a series of programming objects. That way refinement can be added over time provided the underlying framework is sorted. You get the feeling they're redoing the whole thing from the ground up with each installment. It's the same with AI. This should be incremental not a bloody afterthought.
Silly.
The game, or the car?
I'll let Mads field that one... after he's picked his jaw off the floor.
Well since the top speed of the stock car is 407km/h that video is a little odd. Unless the car has been modified to take it over and above the 1001bhp or it's been made aerodynamically more efficient, or there's a strong tail wind
But damn Forza 3 is looking real nice isn't it. It certainly conveys a good impression of speed!
FM3, pretty good, they've streamlined the single player so you don't have to worry about certain things, like event selection, it seems to be easing you in.
There are some MAD MAD MAD tracks, MAD. That one in the demo is HUGE, there is an EXTREME version that is very long and incorporates all the 4 or so tracks on that map. Almost, almost SEGA'esque in its wierdness. The track shot when the selecting the track makes it look like it might maybe maybe be Daytona USA track Dinosaur Canyon, something about the massive right hander and grass run off that could easily say SEGA on it, especially the colour palette.
Feels a little easier, mechanically, however the FLIP, the FLOAT is pretty special, now the cars aren't anchored you can't attack the curbs in the same way you use to, so you can FLY, if this is disproportionate I wouldn't be able to tell you, but the physics generally feel less like you are driving a tank in terms of collisions.
There is some pretty slick stuff with community video uploads and so on, i.e. I uploaded a replay of a race and Paper got it in seconds.
That there Forza 3 I'm enjoying a lot more than I expected to
It has that classic F355/Le Mans feel I've been looking for, well, since Le Mans really - arcade controls, but a competent sim underneath.
They have undone the horrendous interface and made something a lot more elegant too, and simplified career mode and upgrades to the point where you can easily dive in, but the deep end is there if you are looking for it.
The community stuff is slick and comprehensive as well.
I should really give that Race Pro a pop though, not sure if the wobbly frame rate would hurt it or not. This FM3 is a rock solid 60 though, and looks great.
Completely agree about the tank like collisions, some compromise here regarding playability/frustration balance I think. Reminds me of F355 the way that is handled.
It is pretty cool coming round on your second lap to see half your bumper on the road side that you accidentally left there on the first lap.
Nice!
The track shot when the selecting the track makes it look like it might maybe maybe be Daytona USA track Dinosaur Canyon, something about the massive right hander and grass run off that could easily say SEGA on it, especially the colour palette.
You bastards really know how to push my buttons don't you. Dinosaur Canyon is my favourite TA track on Daytona. Expert is great too, but it's a little too long and only 2 laps isn't rewarding enough. That final right hander on Dinosaur Canyon is majestic, almost as significant as the final corner on Desert in Sega Rally. Cock it up and goodbye laptime. There were multiple ways to negotiate it too. Happy memories.
DC ver, obviously
This corner, which is usually the other way round, or was it a combo, brain failing... anyways the track itself in Forza has nothing like this at all, it was just the track selection image that reminded me of the fun fun fun times....
Look at this (if it works)
...nuts.
"Interesting" thread here:
http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31595
Oh that looks driftilicious.
RE. Dinosaur Canyon I thought you meant the right hand bend before the main straight. The one with the big grass run off that if you cocked up left you sliding round on a massive arc. The corner in that screen shot is a different beastie again iirc it's a cog down into 3rd or 2nd and drift making sure you get out of the drift early and back on the power.
Did some onlining with a buddy last night who does frequent this haunt... anyways we had a few races, and this is a still he put together of one of my more controversial overtaking maneuvers... I'm the green Aston, he was the blue, was.
The public online lobbies appear to be intentionally crufted at this stage, so their are limited options vs the plethora of options in a private race... it might be all a bit odd as it wasn't technically released until today.
I could in theory pick a copy of this up today to play online this evening. Is it worthwhile? Will peeps be interested in playing this beyond the initial first flush of fun?
Double post (that's never happend before ???)
EBKC.
I'm in it for the long haul.
The more I play more I like the "3 dimensional" feel to the physics, it weird how not being able to flip a car in the older game wasn't an issue, yet now it seems crazy... how is that a sim when you can't flip a car?
My initial skepticism about the drift element is slowly being eroded by the subliminal messages in the game...
One thing to consider is that the "Limited Edition" does offer some enticing extras.
Another thing to consider is that although they've managed to obfuscate the GT progression model it is still very much there... having played a few races online (a few, chah) I've got about 200,000 credits and can buy my way out of any problem. And I'm not even past the first month of the calendar.
Another another thing is they seem to have taken the approach of if it aint broke don't fix it, so the decal, paint shop thang is identical to fm2... just higher res.
But they've cracked engine braking, lift off steering is a joy and the drifting is accidentally very entertaining.
It sounds rocking, but I've spent too much on games recently. I could be persuaded to hire it in though...
Love the way that neither of you are actually on the black stuff in that picture. You see if I was there then I'd have driven under Paper and Past you Bad Boyz 2 Stylee PIMP!
EBKC.
Oh and WTF!
Played some Forza 3 last night against my brother online now he is XBoxed up. We had a couple of good races around Silverstone that were very evenly matched. Perhaps you boys would like to join us next time we're hitting the tracks for some mutliway fun?
My bro has also done some very nice car designs, (he's a graphic designer by profession). Purchased his green Mazda FC design, so you might see me flossin that out at some point.
Got a Forza sesh lined up this weekend actually. We, a group of my mainstream buddies, have got a bit serious with the race setups, this weekend I have compiled a track list and we have a selection of cars to race with... but we aren't racing against each other, we are racing the AI in Teams... its slightly over elaborate.
All Wheels too. Its good, the driving model is great, the AI is useless except on the really high PI cars, it seems they've graded the AI with the PI of the vehicles, which is stupid.
The multiplayer lobby system is also really crap.
What we've found though, to give it a bit more edge is you have a race series of 4 tracks say and a locked amount of laps, and just tournament that way... this isn't handled very well in the lobby system, but you can adapt. Also what's good is a reverse grid as FOR NO REASON AT ALL, there is no qualifying. We only reset when you get hideously barged by some exceptionally inept AI action.