First off: my Brain Age wavers from 60 to 70!
Second on: Its another one of those time machine games.
Third out: Its another one of those "play every day" games
Fourth in: Its annoyingly got me hooked on Sudoku
Fifth about: The presentation is a mixed bag, dodgy buttons etc
Sixth all: Reading a page of a book out loud and timing yourself is as wierd as it gets
Seventh it: That "Virtua" polygon head is going to be the syuff of nightmares
Eighth shake: It makes me feel like an complete idiot.
FUN!
Ninth: It's an ethical minefield because the original games are based on Japanese specific psychometric tests.
Ninth: It's an ethical minefield because the original games are based on Japanese specific psychometric tests.
Ellaborate please. I'm failing to see the ethical implications of that.
Ellaborate please. I'm failing to see the ethical implications of that.
Psychometric tests are intrinsically attached to the cognitive associations of their host language. In the case of the original Brain Training games, the language the original tests were formulated in was that of Japanese. This is made even more complicated when you realise that not only is Japanese a language based around a whole different approach to phonetics (in that when Japanese people hear dogs bark they associate parts of words rather than sounds) and that the tests have no English allegory.
As such it's an ethical minefield...
Forgive me. I'm obviously having a senior moment. I comprehend everything you say (although I think you're generalising somewhat), but I still fail to see what this has to do with ethics. It's not as though anyone is doing research with this game and taking the average brain age in the West and comparing it to a brain from the East. Obviously such a study would be scientifically shakey since the tests will be more aligned to Japanese cognitive reasoning than our own.
I understand what you're saying about the differences in language and how that shapes thought processes and mental development. However, when we talk about mathematics (the universal language) everyone is on an equal footing. You only have to look at the popularity currently enjoyed by Sudoku to see that.
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"Anyone who's played Namco's Cyber Sled and wished, however remotely, for a home version will be the first to figure it out:... - Tim Rogers
That could be argued for some of the tests.
The initial test is say the colour but with the written word being different or the same colour... which messes with your head.
Maths tests are maths test.
As are the join the the numbers and letters tests... its nothing I didn't do at primary school, but without the electro probes and ice baths...
It seems to unlock games or tests as you go, also very time related. You can only test your brain age once a day, but you can practice the tests willy as they say nilly.
The 'scientifically proven' stuff seems completely bogus to me, just a hokey way of justifying a set of mental exercises.
You could claim that Pac Man was scientifically proven to improve hand-eye co-ordination if you wanted, and conducted 'scientific' tests to measure as much. Which would be true... but only for Pac Man.
The "scientifically proven" aspect of psychometrics is by no means bogus. Misuse of these tests thus becomes an ethical issue, because the data they produce is fixed to certain scientific standards. In that, using the wrong test in the wrong context produces data that won't be relevant but the data won't show that in and of itself. As such you have to be qualified to administer psychometric tests on people.
Exactly. So pinning these tests onto a game is kind of entertaining, but not worth a lot.
Exactly. So pinning these tests onto a game is kind of entertaining, but not worth a lot.
The above is only true for pen and paper tests. If the test is automated, like in the brain training "games", then you don't need anyone who is qualified in psychometrics in order to mark it. That's why it sold so well in Japan, it was down to the convenience of being able to do standardised psychometric tests on the move without the need for any kind of hospital appointment.
Hmm, I just don't buy it. I don't think there is much value in those tests to begin with.
Seems like an excuse to sell books and games to me
Hmm, I just don't buy it. I don't think there is much value in those tests to begin with.
Seems like an excuse to sell books and games to me
Well, psychometrics are scientifically valued the world over, personal beliefs just don't come into it at all really. Their misuse is subsequently a serious ethical issue, something that is bizarrely being ignored in the case of the Western release of the brain training "games" (they aren't "games" at all in fact, they are medical software just packaged in a fairly cute and accessible way).
Exactly. So pinning these tests onto a game is kind of entertaining, but not worth a lot.
Is this being marketed as a game or edutainment though. I can see Cacky's point if it's the latter.
It is being marketed as scientifically based brain training.
Click.
Now I concur with Cack-faces objection. I just thought it was a Wario Ware style IQ test. DOH!
That said I like you think its bollocks. It goes next to Economics on the shelf of 'scientific' fields developed to model things which can't be modeled.
I was at an economics conference last month where a guy had correlated two sets of data. Population density recorded in the year 1500 and economic growth in 2005...
Unbelievable.
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"Anyone who's played Namco's Cyber Sled and wished, however remotely, for a home version will be the first to figure it out:... - Tim Rogers
I'm now Brain Age: 38
A massive improvement, esp after Papercut suggested I sau Bloooooo instead of my Yorshire Bluwy-eh-up-lad-go-tut-town-on-scooter.
I feel scientifically and ethically confused... However, its still entertainingly taxing, and more bits unlock as I play play game test play exam play.
Aparently you can merge your stats with someone else, and see their comedy pictures and the like... My drawing of a giraffe is scraping remedial.
I have 3 files on my Brain Training Cart and it certainly makes having the 'game' a lot more worthwhile. Most days it'll ask me to draw something, and then my girlfriend will do the same and the other person too and it'll round them up nicely and we can all look together and have an argument about who can draw a hippo better. It's good fun in that regard, I like how it's made simple little things completely addictive. Things like Calculations 20 and 100 are what I love the most. I relish that one moment per day when I can attempt to get a better time at it. Currently sitting at 14.05 seconds for calculations x20, I've done 13 seconds, but it didn't register as i'd had more than one go that day. Boo hiss.
I can't help but think that these things would be great for kids still at primary school etc.
nice forum.
Just ordered this (only £12.99 including delivery from the US) from Movietyme.
Xbox Gamertag - RogsR34UK
Strange one this, despite thinking the premise is total bunk, I am quite enjoying it.
The 100x calculations are my thing. Shocked at how slow I am, and the pull is wanting to get faster.
£12 you can't go wrong, eh.
On paper these puzzles are offensively easy, in the moment, my mental arithmatic (and spelling) goes to whack. I can barely do 5x7....!
I quite enjoy the 20 and 100 calculations, I enjoy the drawing like a 5 year old, and the .... well I enjoy all of it really.
The Sudoku I also like, never played it before on principle, but the interface is so nice I thought I'd give it a go, and its pure logic, so I normally put on a blue shirt, bell bottoms and pointy ears to add to the fun.
My game arrived from Movietyme yesterday... having been posted in the UK! That seems to be about normal for delivery on "in stock" items so no problems there. For those that want the game cheap definitely a viable option.
Gave the game a try last night. It was a bit of a shock to the system to turn the DS through 90 degrees to play it. I was tired which probably didn't help the Brain Age... it was my real age. Most of the tests I could do at "Car Speed". With the first Sudoku I managed a "Jet Speed" rating by completing it in 6:55. Must say that I like the way it did Sudoku. I'd definitely be up for a Sudoku game using that as a basis. Better than "Go! Sudoku" on the PSP.
I think my speed on the calculation ones was enhanced as I was doing the next question as I was writing down the answer for the current one.
Xbox Gamertag - RogsR34UK
It won't recognise my blue consistently enough which is becoming tiresome.
The party guests thing is freaking my head out.
And I last played when I was inebriated, making my brain age 78.
Also I successfully remembered what I had to eat a week ago, I was quite pleased with that. However I expect it to pull that one out again in about a year!
Oh and my "Water Fosset" or whatever it is, RULES!
Yes, I occasionally had problems with it recognising my "non-accent".
Xbox Gamertag - RogsR34UK
I hate the 'blue' thing. Generally what i have to do is say blue in a higher pitched voice. I've tried all sorts of combinations, I don't have much of an accent myself so maybe I'm being punished for that. The most consistent though, is if I hold my DS very close to my mouth and say blue in a higher than normal tone. But it breaks the rhythm somewhat as I'm constantly worrying it's not going to pick up so I pause inside my head just until it clears onto the next colour.
I've unlocked all the training games now too, and I can honestly say that i'm becoming tired of it. Though maybe it has more to do with me picking up phoenix wright recently
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me ves y sufres
I seem to occasionally have problems with yellow as well.
Xbox Gamertag - RogsR34UK